88 911 Engine refresh - CA
 

Dropped off new to me 911 at Sleepers Speed Shop this week. Will know this week if we will be going beyond top end job. Heads will be off today. I'll post a few pics as engine come out and build begins.

Comments please on "I wish when the motor was out I would have" ___________, ________ and ___________.

I dont have an unlimited budget on this build as its a driver build so please keep that in mind.

Thank you inadvance.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1538657072.jpg

Engine out, heads off and at machine shop. With Heads off it was clear new P&Cs would be part of the build. Lower inspection showed/looked great after inspection so engine builder will replace a few seals and button her up shortly with the new Mahle 3.2 P&C and valve job.

Coating fan, shroud, valve covers and a few more bits. Stock exhaust going back on after cleanup and fresh coating. All new hardware and gaskets of course.

While engine is out new engine sound pad, rear shocks, sway bars bushing going in.

Hope to have a few picks posted soon.

Congrats! I'm on a similar course with an 88 Targa. You can check my thread for similar question I asked for http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1009363-my-new-journey-88-911-targa.html

Your problem, I would guess, will be passing smog, so you are fairly limited in your options.

Since you need pistons and cylinders you can update to 98mm P&Cs giving you a 3.4L. Probably could use 964 cams and an updated chip as well.

Maybe search for Draco's (DRACO A5OG) recent rebuild.

Keeping car 100% stock so 3.2s Mahle going on with JE pistons. No chip for this cab driver.

Any while your in there suggestions?

996AE, may I ask how many miles on the engine, and why were new P&C's recommended? Just interested. Thanks, John/CT

155k

Sleepers Speed Shop engine builder had plans to just re ring and valve job. Said after heads came off the type of factory cylinders I have from Porsche will smoke even with new rings. Recommended we replace. I am meeting with them tomorrow to learn more on why the cylinders cant be reused as originally planned.

I know more tomorrow and will post what I learn.

Shop confirmed aluminum cylinders from Porsche on the 88 911 arent good for re ringing. So, I bought the Mahle 3.2s. Down the slippery slope I went. We are going to split the case and replace bearings and do a reseal.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1539455018.JPG

Engine out.

Heads are off and at machine shop. Bottom end split next week all new bearings and reseal.

The. Cylinders have a value for 3.4 opening to 98mm
Bruce

Thanks Bruce.

SSS said it was another 2k for the 3.4 Mahle. Had to draw the line somewhere.

Tins, fan, housing, strap and valve covers off to powder coat shop.

OEM 930 whale tail coming off and new Carrera deck lid will replace it. Tail is for sale. Grand Prix white 908 paint code.

Cleaning up exhaust system. Trying to keep it stock for now but the huge muffler and weight is causing me to rethink this. Any recommendation on a muffler. I can weld so I was thinking a Magnaflow uni one in one out and fab up the pipes.

Cat advice CA?

they are K&S and not Mahle i think.

had the same pb with a 86 targa, only 110k

went to European Male Cyl/P

no more smog

Alusil barrels or so I was told by shop

Didnt recommend bore and coat Alusil.

As a non mechanic type other than DYI oil, brakes, spark plugs and suspension stuff engine build not my thing. I relied on my engine builder.

Pelican Parts supplied Mahle 3.2 P&Cs new going in.

K&S are alusil, right !
Mahle are Nikasil, the best !!!

if you intend to pitch your alusil jugs, can i ask what you'd send them to me for? PM is great.

thanks!

Saw your car and motor at the shop SmileWavy

Ryan

Right on.

Thanks for the shout out.

Excited to get her back on the road and cleaned up a bit.

I'll be doing the suspension, brakes and interior refresh as soon as shes running again.

Awesome! Going to be a really nice car when you are done.

update

3.2 Euro MAHLE P&Cs will replace the US models.

Slippery slope continues. While were in there new timing chains and sprockets have been added to build list. Looks like SuperTec head studs will replace the stock, in great shape studs.

Is the engine case opened? Reason I ask is because if you're replacing timing chains and cam sprockets, the lower sprockets inside the engine case (they're on the intermediate shaft) and the sprockets on the chain tensioner arms should be replaced as well. New chains like new sprockets at both ends and in between. It's not the end of the world if you don't replace the lower sprockets. Just saying it's technically the proper way to approach the chain & sprocket assembly.

Be sure to have the shop look closely at your fan ring. The 3.2 fan rings are most prone to breaking because the alternator body got bigger in the later cars. When the alternator body got bigger, the center of the ring got thinner and weaker.

Take a good look at your clutch. If it's got a rubber centered disc, replace it.

Yes. Bottom end is open. Crank, rods etc... at machine shop for a little love. All new bearings going in. I assumed the sprockets on ims will be part of the lower end kit but Ill ask to be sure. THX.

Clutch has about 20k mi on it and looks great. That will go back on.

Fan Ring looks good and is at powder coat shop, along with tins, valve covers etc...

Dropped off seats at Upholstery shop yesterday. Super excited. The Marina Blue leather is stunning on this Grand Prix White Cab. After 30 years the bolsters (drivers side) were shot and the passenger side seat bottom had a cut. Time to replace.

Hope to have her back before Turkey day.

Once back I plan to (DIY) the suspension and brakes, then off the alignment and corner balance. Darin at West End is my go to.

Anyone have feed back on 3.2 Euro Mahle vs US spec. Any concern using higher Euro compression on CA 91 street gas?

Well, after talking this over with Steve Wong and Vertex engine builders, and a few others I have decided that the Euro 3.2 MAHLE higher compression P&Cs will be returned and US spec P&Cs will be installed.

With CA smog requirements and 91 octane gas only for my DD build the cons of higher compression far out weigh the pros.

Steve Weiner said commenting on 3.2 Euro P&Cs'

Compression ratios over 9.8:1 require either twin-ignition or unleaded race gas. Without either one, you'll face broken rings and trashed pistons from detonation. BTDT,.....SOOO many times. 93 octane fuel is not sufficient.

Well, with holidays, Rennsport, SEMA and machine shop delays my 4-6 week engine build, well, is a much longer build.

Good news is I will pull the car out of the shop tomorrow and off to mancave for suspension refresh and some detailing.

Al Reed re finished 7&8 (930 finish) with new Michelin AS tires will be added.

Turbo tail off and flat deck lid (factory order) going back on.

Seat are done this week so hope to install them as well before returning for new bottom up engine rebuild and install.

Like all remodels twice the time and twice the money.

That said should be a great driver for my small fleet of fun cars.

P/C choice
 

996AE
You should reconsider your Mahle P/C set and get more info first. When you CC it all out you'll likely find that the compression Ratio is not near the 10.3:1 quoted, but more like 9.6:1 with a Head that has not been cut many times when a valve job was done, meaning Head CC's are in the 90-92CC range as is average).

Similarly, when you CC out your USA spec piston, the compression ratio will be in the 8.9-9.0:1 range, which is pretty weak. even for 91 octane we get here in Calif. Never heard a great explanation as to why this is, but this is often the result when you CC out the stock Porsche P/C sets, another example a 964 3.6 rated at 11.3:1 is actually closer to 10.5.

Any credible engine builder you can trust would have learned this and you should get that done(starting w the Euro set first) to see where you are at, think you'll be happier w more umphff.

Happy motoring.

Kevin
GAS Motorsport

Know you ruled them out before over price, but you might now want to reconsider the Mahle motorsports 98mm wedge-shaped single plug p/c set -- which would get you an advertised 10:1 cr (likely lower when you CC) and, by increasing displacement to 3.4l, would also give you an appreciable power bump. OR -- get your existing cylinders bored to 98mm to fit new mahle motorsport pistons (or other "max moritz" single plug copies) Middle Ground?

Money not the issue.

Steve Wong and Steve Wiener both concur. 10.3.1 Euro spec MAHLE P&Cs need 94/95 Octane gas, and/or tuning, and/or twin plug, and/or....

For a DD and a layman at that when it comes to engine building I went the safe route and did return the Euro P&Cs for US Spec. I will run sport exhaust, no cat and Wong chip. Slippery slope but log term reliability and smooth, dependable engine build was/is the goal.

I appreciate the feed back.

Gee, I hope your suppliers didn’t read this (if you care).

Builders have re-ringed good Alusil cylinders with good results - some not so. So I understand the builder’s preference for predicting positive end results with minor risk. A DiYer has that same dilemma at the risk of their own $$ and labor.

Sherwoodr

Porsche and budget when rebuilding a 911 motor somehow never quite together. I opted for the 12 month motor guarantee which re ringing wouldnt have recieved. And in CA with the stringent smog rules I took the safe route. Good news is with everything balanced, polished, ported etc.... should be better than new.

Again, not a engine builder so I am trusting the shop. Great guys and I am following their lead and recommendations.

Besides the 6 week build now looking like 12 weeks from what I am learning we are right on schedule.

Heads are done. Tins all powder coated. New MAHLE 3.2s balanced. Just waiting on oil pump and balanced and polished crank. Hoping the assembly starts next week.

In the meanwhile I picked up the car and its in the mancave for detailing. Seats are back from the upholstery shop and looked fantastic.

Whale tail (Turbo) off and new decklid installed. Never a fan of the turbo tail on narrow body cab. Besides it wasnt on option list so off it went.

Only change from stock is the white option coded fuchs 6 and 7s are off and turbo finished black center 7&8s going on with new Michelin AS tires.

Car on rack this week at cave. Years of oil leak clean up this week. Cant install motor into a dirty engine bay. New shocks, rear brake pads and rotors, swaybar bushings, sound pad along with axle boots complete the rear.

Sleepers Speed Shop hopes to have engine build completed by Christmas.

I'll post a few engine assembly pics next week.

Good news bad news.

Car is looking good and ready for new engine. 7 and 8 Fuchs, turbo finished with new Michelin Pilot Sports 3 A/S mounted replacing the Don Johnson Miami Vice White 6 and 7s. Under belly cleaned, engine bay detailed and new seats installed.

Just need an engine for Christmas.

Stay tuned.

PS. Heads back from Machine shop but "rototating parts" are delayed, again. Christmas not likely. Darn.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Car is headed back Sleepers Speed Shop tomorrow.

Hoping to get an update on engine build time frame when I drop her off.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1546472880.jpg

Drop off

Shout out to A & B Towing Costa Mesa CA

Great service.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1546641486.jpg

Looking forward to hearing it run and finding out how you like it.
Mike

Me too!

I saw the tins, covers etc... from powder coater. Supertec studs, ARP rod bolts, heads and a bunch of gaskets, new hoses and lines....

All we need it the machine shop to deliver our rotating parts. Holidays have pushed us way behind original build date goal.

Sleepers Speed Shop promised me a few pictures of the heads and the pile of shiny new parts. Ill post a few.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1547316247.jpg


Let the fun begin.

All parts back from Machine shop.

Great start to the week.

Four new axle boots kits installed and rear sway bar cracked bracket replaced. Clean room holding all the new and machine shop engine parts assembled and tagged for build start this week.

For those that have tackled this bottom up build I know you can appreciate the time and care going into checking, double checking and checking again before assembly starts.

Sleeper Speed Shop tells me their goal is to get the bottom end buttoned up this week.

I'll post pictures when they do.

Bottom end together.

Great progress this week.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1547922542.jpg