Break in oil- first 20 minutes- Brad Penn or standard non detergent

[trond]

I re-ringed my Nickasil cylinders and used a generic 15W-40 oil the first 200 miles before changing to the usual Swepco 306 15W-40

I took great care to really load up the engine the first miles, as that has always worked well on my other engines

However the rings took more than a year and some 6000 miles to bed in and the burnt oil smell did not go away until I did a track day.

If I were to do it again I would use Millers break in oil AND run the engine hard

[afterburn 549]

Originally Posted by James Brown

interesting, the lycoming service bulletin i just looked at says it is ok to use the same oil (like 20W50 phillips 66 aircooled engine oil) for both break in and normal use. I always used the mineral ashless dispersant oil for the first 25 hours. Now it is ok to use the same oil for that. the oil game continues.

Please do not pay too much atn. to what airplane engines do.
They are put together so loose you can drive between most parts in a semi. Very old school engineering and technology.
They are so mired in the RED tape paper work deal, it takes 5 years to get a great idea to be "allowed " to be changed or installed.
Its most EZ to do it the "always has been" way.LOL
They are still running around with one cam, magnetos, and so on , Yes they should have dual ignition..but wow, 30 pounds worth ?
And so govt rolls..........................
When it comes to cams they are in the center in a oil bath..drowning

[James Brown]

have to agree, but the point is that any oil can be used as break in oil, if changed at the specific time. I do call the engines tractor engines!!!!

[ganun]

The set of JE pistons I got came with a specific warning to use non-detergent oil (30?) for initial run or void their warranty.
Otherwise see tronds comments below;

"I re-ringed my Nickasil cylinders and used a generic 15W-40 oil the first 200 miles before changing to the usual Swepco 306 15W-40

I took great care to really load up the engine the first miles, as that has always worked well on my other engines

However the rings took more than a year and some 6000 miles to bed in and the burnt oil smell did not go away until I did a track day."

[James Brown]

nicasils might be the exception and as always follow manufacture procedures

[afterburn 549]

Oil is a Religion around here
and i respect what Henry has to say....all albeit he left out the whys...
For the most part it has been the Borg of thought around here-
Non detergent for break in because it helps the rings seat faster better.
Dump it go to a count race oil.
Brad pen has been up on the list. I have never used it
I have 30000 miles on my car and 2 valve adj.
I use what I can find like Valvoline V1 or Kendall Race oil.
So far the wear on the lobes is negligible .I am a couple 1000 miles past a due adj on the valves, but all is quiet in there
In the end as many pros have said "use a high P.M. count."
Some swear by syn oil, others hate it
Maybe Henry will explain his stand on Delo.
I know its a great oilf for a diesel

[BURN-BROS]

The intent of Non detergent oil is to prevent any intermixing of the detergent packages in different oils and greases. If they mix they can react and cause a chemical reaction that resembles soap.

Now, I have used all types of oil for break in (except syn) and have never had a reaction nor has it influenced the seating of rings.

This non-detergent rule may simply be tradition now as the oil companies may have settled with one type of detergent, which I was told was bleach based.

Delo is intended for heavy duty Diesel turbo applications, mechanical injection, as well as a detergent package to keep Diesel engines from forming deposits. It has translated well to Air cooled Porsche engines.

[afterburn 549]

Then I am thinking Shell 15/40 Rotella ought to work too !

[BURN-BROS]

Yup!

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

Oil is a Religion around here
and i respect what Henry has to say....all albeit he left out the whys...edit....

I left off the "whys" because "why " can drive you crazy.
I posted some observations.
I've spent years explaining why my studs work and life is too short for conjecture on every observation.
I have taken apart a few engines recently that ran exclusively BP and seen wear I didn't expect. That's it. No grand scheme, no hate, just an observation.
I have used Delo for a few years now (in the street and race engines) and it's easy to find and it's relatively cheap so Delo it is.
As an anecdotal story to rival most, we built a titanium 4.0 liter race engine that performed flawlessly for 200+ hour in the sand. Upon freshening we found no issues with bearings, rings, or any wear items. 200+ in the sand with Delo from break-in to present.
Recently a dyno guy told us that Delo is showing better readings than BP on the dyno. Why? I don't know.......does it really matter?

For you conspiracy theorist: I forgot to ask my dyno guy if he had a position in Chevron futures......

As for : converting from synthetic oil to petroleum oil in an air-cooled early 911, I have no science there either, just observation. If we ask, we'll get 30 guys that tried it with the same result. Leaks......where no leaks existed before.

[afterburn 549]

Thanx Henry......
I just needed a short good answer
Purrfect

[Lapkritis]

If you have sludge keeping you from leaking then imagine what your internals look like. I've made the switch to synthetic on non-porsche engines specifically prior to a rebuild or modification and used CRC detergent to flush before tear down. Rotten, leaking gaskets and seals replaced.


Then once on Synthetic, there's nothing quite like cracking into an engine after a decade and having it be cleaner after those 10yrs and zero bearing wear.

[afterburn 549]

Originally Posted by Lapkritis

If you have sludge keeping you from leaking then imagine what your internals look like. I've made the switch to synthetic on non-porsche engines specifically prior to a rebuild or modification and used CRC detergent to flush before tear down. Rotten, leaking gaskets and seals replaced.


Then once on Synthetic, there's nothing quite like cracking into an engine after a decade and having it be cleaner after those 10yrs and zero bearing wear.

Then why were you opening it......just a wondering .....LOL

[Lapkritis]

First time, to lower compression for turbo and replace timing chain ramps. Second job was for a hotter cam.

[911pcars]

So, the question is; Does the application of an engine assy. lube (EOS or equiv.) mitigate the absence of Zn and Potassium in the suggested "break-in oils"? Or perhaps an assy. lube wasn't used; does the short oil change interval minimize the feared scuffing and wear at the high-load areas (e.g. cam lobe/rocker arm contact area)? And if so, why?

Or have we started yet another "Why I hate........ oil" thread in this engine rebuild forum?

Sherwood

[James Brown]

pretty much

[johnman001]

Originally Posted by BURN-BROS

The intent of Non detergent oil is to prevent any intermixing of the detergent packages in different oils and greases. If they mix they can react and cause a chemical reaction that resembles soap.

Now, I have used all types of oil for break in (except syn) and have never had a reaction nor has it influenced the seating of rings.

This non-detergent rule may simply be tradition now as the oil companies may have settled with one type of detergent, which I was told was bleach based.

Delo is intended for heavy duty Diesel turbo applications, mechanical injection, as well as a detergent package to keep Diesel engines from forming deposits. It has translated well to Air cooled Porsche engines.

Please sir, could you expound upon this please?

You have used "all types" of oils for break in? What do you use once broken in?

(I have also done this but have been shunned as all the "technical data" on oils was typed up on the internet.)

I may be old school, but I truly believe in clean oil with a clean filter.

[cmcfaul]

For a flat tappet engine, it's all about the Zinc.

Mobil 1 V-twin has 1750 PPM. I believe that is the highest of them all.

100% synthetic - check
Highest Zinc - check
designed for air cooled engines - check
Expensive - check :-(

I have used it exclusively and am doing a bottom end rebuild after 100k hard miles. The bearings show very little wear.

Facts, not opinions.

Synthetic is better. High Zinc is better for flat tappet engines like mine. Do not use if your car has a catalitic converter.

Chris


73 911 E

[cmcfaul]

Oops forgot the original post topic. Breakin

My machine shop and Porsche expert talked me into useing Brad Penn Break In oil. This is a streight 30 weight designed for break in. I plan on using it for 500 miles then back to the V-twin stuff (20-50).

Chris

[Lapkritis]

Running the Delo (Chevron) right now for my stretch following new P/C and top-end from 1000 to 2500 miles prior to a planned switch to synthetic. I noted how cloudy the oil was near the bottom of the freshly sealed gallon relative to the first few quarts that came out. If you're adding a partial container then I would recommend shaking it up first.