Burning oil? - Page 2

SergioK · 10-14-2008, 12:18 PM

Here ya go Craig... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=362425

ckcarr · ckcarr's Garage

I was thinking of this one: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=159357

Guess it happens more than I thought.

signit98 · 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daviddunn

Sometimes I wonder why you even read this forum. The majority of your posts are almost "anti-BMW". Why is that?

...you apparently don't know how to differentiate between what you call "Anti-BMW" (gee, let's see... I own 4 of them... YEAH, I am TOTALLY ANTI-BMW!) and being realistic about a bike's and/or manufacturers shortcomings as opposed to other manufacturers and their bikes...

...being that you have been a member for only a very short time, I also question your judgement on "the majority" of my posts...

Take of the pink glasses and stop drinking the cool-aid! BMW builds a much or as little crap as others... you just pay more for it!

Though I happen to like my bikes, I still see things that are not as they should be and clearly recognize the fact that other bikes deliver more (or equal) for less... I just don't like them as much...

throttlemeister · throttlemeister's Garage

Blasphemy, Ralf, blasphemy!

signit98 · 10-14-2008, 01:26 PM

...Oh, Gijs you are as good - if not better - as I am when it comes to pointing out weaknesses in those Agricultural vehicles we love so much... so, I take your statement as a compliment!

SergioK · 10-14-2008, 01:27 PM

Here ya go...

Quote:

Dear Abby,

I've never written to you before, but I really need your advice on what could be a crucial decision. I've suspected for some time now that my wife has been cheating on me.

The usual signs... Phone rings but if I answer, the caller hangs up. My wife has been going out with the girls a lot recently although when I ask their names she always says, "Just some friends from work, you don't know them."

I always stay awake to look out for her taxi coming home, but she always walks down the drive. Although I can hear a car driving off, as if she has gotten out of the car round the corner. Why? Maybe she wasn't in a taxi? I once picked her cell phone up just to see what time it was and she went berserk and screamed that I should never touch her phone again and why was I checking up on her.

Anyway, I have never approached the subject with my wife. I think deep down I just didn't want to know the truth, but last night she went out again and I decided to really check on her. I decided I was going to park my HP2 Sport motorcycle next to the garage and then hide behind it so I could get a good view of the whole street when she came home. It was at that moment, crouching behind my HP2 Sport, that I noticed that the valve covers on my engine seemed to be leaking a little oil.

Is this something I can fix myself or should I take it back to the dealer?

Thanks,

Bob

geothepencil · 10-14-2008, 01:33 PM

We need a new BBS for owners of multiple BMW bikes, one that accentuates the negative feelings inherent in such frivolity. Cheery place, wouldn't you think ?

geo

daviddunn · 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SergioK

Dear Abby,

I've never written to you before, but I really need your advice on what could be a crucial decision. I've suspected for some time now that my wife has been cheating on me.

The usual signs... Phone rings but if I answer, the caller hangs up. My wife has been going out with the girls a lot recently although when I ask their names she always says, "Just some friends from work, you don't know them."

I always stay awake to look out for her taxi coming home, but she always walks down the drive. Although I can hear a car driving off, as if she has gotten out of the car round the corner. Why? Maybe she wasn't in a taxi? I once picked her cell phone up just to see what time it was and she went berserk and screamed that I should never touch her phone again and why was I checking up on her.

Anyway, I have never approached the subject with my wife. I think deep down I just didn't want to know the truth, but last night she went out again and I decided to really check on her. I decided I was going to park my HP2 Sport motorcycle next to the garage and then hide behind it so I could get a good view of the whole street when she came home. It was at that moment, crouching behind my HP2 Sport, that I noticed that the valve covers on my engine seemed to be leaking a little oil.

Is this something I can fix myself or should I take it back to the dealer?

Thanks,

Bob

HAHAHAHA! I love that! I'm going to be laughing at that for a while. It's so true, isn't it?

daviddunn · 10-14-2008, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signit98

...you apparently don't know how to differentiate between what you call "Anti-BMW" (gee, let's see... I own 4 of them... YEAH, I am TOTALLY ANTI-BMW!) and being realistic about a bike's and/or manufacturers shortcomings as opposed to other manufacturers and their bikes...

...being that you have been a member for only a very short time, I also question your judgement on "the majority" of my posts...

Take of the pink glasses and stop drinking the cool-aid! BMW builds a much or as little crap as others... you just pay more for it!

Though I happen to like my bikes, I still see things that are not as they should be and clearly recognize the fact that other bikes deliver more (or equal) for less... I just don't like them as much...

You must not have read the part where I said you seem "almost" anti BMW. I also pointed out the fact that you own 4 BMW motorcycles, of which some of them are arguable the best BMW motorcycles manufactured to date. Don't take this as a personal attack, I'm just not used to someone spending so much money for something that they think is inferior to a less expensive product.

Your reply to my post simply brings even more attention to my original question, which is why do you own 4 great BMW motorcycles, if there are so many shortcomings? Why not buy a cheaper product with less/equal shortcomings, as that seems to be your attitude on many of your RECENT posts (I neglected to make that known in my original post, as you are correct, I have only read your posts over the past 6 months or so.)

ice-cycle · 10-14-2008, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jduke

Yeah, but for the price of a can of oil you will still be riding the BMW long after the VStrom is retired.

As others have noticed, I don't think that is going to be the case. The Strom has 83,000 km on it, and is tight, and running well. The clutch is good, the engine is good, the crank is good, the tranny is fine. Since I got my strom, the only problems I have had is that the clutch slave leaks, and needs to be cleaned once or twice a season to prevent leaking, and the cush drive bearings had to be replaced at 60,000 km.

The Japanese bikes are amazing. A friend of mine rides a vulcan 1500 with 220,000 km and though it starting to make engine noise, it has got there with zero maintenance issues.

Don't get me wrong, I love the BMW, it has a whole different level of feel and quality to it, that the Strom lacks. But I can tell you that I firmly believe that a bike that needs a quart of oil every 1,000 km either has a serious problem or is not well made. In short, I am seriously pissed.

SergioK · 10-14-2008, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ice-cycle

But I can tell you that I firmly believe that a bike that needs a quart of oil every 1,000 km either has a serious problem or is not well made. In short, I am seriously pissed.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the engine being mounted to a motorcycle but everything to do with a horizontallly opposed twin. As the Lycoming guys how they feel about oil consumption.

JonyRR · 10-14-2008, 03:17 PM

Do you know what a leakdown test is?
NOT a compression test, a leakdown test; this measures the ability of the rings and valves to seal in compression.
over 5% leakdown would indicate valve sealing issues or more commonly, lack of ring seal.
WHY lack of ring seal; either they're worn, got too hot during breakin, crystallizing the ring structure, or the cylinders glazed, keeping the rings from seating.
the nikasil bores on these are tough bast'ids but they need correct breakin to seal the rings correctly lest the dreaded golden-color glaze on the cylinder walls occurs.
IF it's low mileage an old mechanic's hack (no kidding, no foolin') is to put in a teaspoon of bonamie in each cylinder bore, run it for a couple of minutes and then change the oil.
OR you could pull both heads and ball-hone the bores to kill the glaze and REPLACE the rings and then break it in correctly.
My scoot is 40K>miles, has 1.5% leakdown and uses virtually no oil regardless of how hard I flog it, but I DID break it in MY way;
50 miles of easy riding, VERY LIGHT LOAD and no lugging, then, after cooling:
run it up to 90% throttle in 3rd, yard on both brakes HARD while opening the throttle all the way for 2-3 sec (which builds up combustion pressure BEHIND the rings to force them into the cylinder walls as much as possible), then pull over, let it cool completely, do that procedure again and viola; total ring seal.
And before all you guyz give me schisa, that breakin scheme is used by many respected tuners.
I'd bet lunch you have glazed cylinder bores.
My $.02

SergioK · 10-14-2008, 03:30 PM

Jony, lend her to me for a week and I'll have her using up oil... slow ground speed, high engine speed and LOTS of engine braking... oh, and a little LA traffic will do that to any engine.

1100s nut · 10-14-2008, 03:58 PM

Sergio.. you beat me to it. I have a good friend that bought a cirrus a/c, about $400,000 and he he having a major issue with oil consumption. Just to add to being horizontally opposed, being air cooled your tolerance has to be greater to allow for the higher heat. I still don`t see how you got 2 liters low. I don`t use that much oil between 6000 miles oil changes and beat the he11 out on mine.

Have you seen the oil light flicker on at all, if it has not you should be ok. Also its easy to over fill these bikes until you get use to it. Your exhaust could be black from short trips if you do that much. Mine gets black from going to the gym often but when i go the mountains running it hard it lightens up. The valve train makes alot of noise....it out there.... exsposed and you here it...also no water cooling to muffle the sound.

Lane

Quote:

Originally Posted by SergioK

It has absolutely nothing to do with the engine being mounted to a motorcycle but everything to do with a horizontallly opposed twin. As the Lycoming guys how they feel about oil consumption.

signit98 · 10-14-2008, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daviddunn

You must not have read the part where I said you seem "almost" anti BMW. I also pointed out the fact that you own 4 BMW motorcycles, of which some of them are arguable the best BMW motorcycles manufactured to date. Don't take this as a personal attack, I'm just not used to someone spending so much money for something that they think is inferior to a less expensive product.

Your reply to my post simply brings even more attention to my original question, which is why do you own 4 great BMW motorcycles, if there are so many shortcomings? Why not buy a cheaper product with less/equal shortcomings, as that seems to be your attitude on many of your RECENT posts (I neglected to make that known in my original post, as you are correct, I have only read your posts over the past 6 months or so.)

I have and have had other marquees, David... and liked them as well... thing is, though... right now I love those flat twins and their characteristics.

Al I am saying - however the individual viewer may interpret on an individual basis - is that BMW's are no better or worse than anyone else's bikes... I have made the choice to deal with these shortcomings, all I am doing is point them out to others when they seem to think that BMW is the Über-Motorrad! Unasked, of course

I am getting to the point where I am about to slim down to just two bikes... the TT500 and the GS... that should give you an idea of the degree of willingness to deal with shortcomings LOL

markjenn · 10-14-2008, 04:58 PM

I doubt the horizontally-opposed engine architecture has much to do with the relatively high oil consumption of aircraft engines (or our boxers) for that matter. For light GA piston engines, it has much more to do with being air-cooled and the extremely loose cylinder bore tolerances required to tolerate the extremes of temperatures the engine experience between taking off and climbing out in Phoenix on a 100-degree F day, running at 100% power for a half hour or more and then, on the same trip, being throttled back to near idle power on descent from 10K feet with a 175 mph, 50 below zero F airstream blowing on the engine. Piston GA aircraft engines are absolutely antediluvian technology and nothing like a BMW motorcycle engine.

I believe the main reason for the relatively high oil consumption on some (but certainly not all) boxers has more to do with the extremely hard Nikasil cylinder coatings used to get long engine life under demanding conditions. These are notoriously hard to get a good consistent oil control ring seal with and break-in can be spotty.

Regardless of the cause, it's something you live with on a boxer BMW. Part of the pluses and minuses.

- Mark

1100s nut · 10-14-2008, 07:57 PM

Mark I agree with your points on GA a/c engines and the hard life they live, I have a few hours PIC in those airplanes, but oil temp. heat was never a problem even in South Carolina 100 degree days unless your in max climb. Cyn. head temps will increase if your playing with the fuel mix at cruise. As far as decent...cool shock was a concern if you pulled too much power back and decent too fast. Our engines are...I would guess closer to the 911 engines before they went to liquid cool. Most GA aircraft engines are very detuned compared to our engines. IIRC about double the liter size for the same HP. I think???

But I will say one thing about bimmer engines, I just bought a 5 series, and my wife and I took a trip around the country..about 6300 miles. I ran the living $hit out of this car "drove like I stole it" and used less than 1/2 quart and I spent many hours at 90 mph plus...all the way to 140 mph... That was on I-80 going into to Salt Lake City. I ahve bought 3 new bmw bikes and never had a oil useage problem. I guess that why I`m puzzled.

Be safe,
Lane

Guest24 · 08:08 PM

Some rings seat well and others don't. On my Lycoming O-540-A1-D5 engines I'd run the dog out of them if compression dropped and it started oiling the plugs. I'd add Mystery Oil to he crankcase to get rid of the carbon. My 11S is stingy on using oil but others have to check theirs all the time. Go figure.

1100s nut · 10-14-2008, 08:19 PM

Bubba.... I bet your compression was about 8:1 "on your bird" and no more. I think...but not sure our bikes are 10:1. I`m not sure that increases comsumption but I would think I would?? Not sure though. He11, what do I know.... I don`t even know alot about the stuff I`m suppose to know alot about??? LOL Going to Ohlins tommorow around 3:00 to pick up my forks and shock, if you are at your mountain crib I`ll buy you a late lunch. Something cheap of course. lol

Lane

JonyRR · 10-14-2008, 08:58 PM

'extremely hard Nikasil cylinder coatings used to get long engine life under demanding conditions. These are notoriously hard to get a good consistent oil control ring seal with and break-in can be spotty.'

As I said, proper breakin when a nikasil (or other composite material) bore is used is critical and not everyone understands how.

The 'load it hard, open the throttle to get combustion pressure behind the rings and let cool twice or thrice' is a method advocated by several name tuners I have had the privilege to pick the brains of.

If it's good enough for Kerry Andrew, Dan Zlock or Mike Velasco, it's good enough for me....and seems to work