Ducati 1098S V R1200S comparison.

OwenM · 01:47 PM

I have owned the Duc for a month and have not had the chance to ride it properly, well today I did, wow what a machine, simply awesome and in just about every way a superior sports bike to my R12S.
For a start the ergonomics of the 1098S work perfectly for me even though they look very aggressive. The Duc is a small, narrow, light and low motorcycle that I sit in rather then on, I feel secure, planted and much more in control then I do on the R12S, especially when pushing hard. A knee off the side racing type riding style feels very natural and the bike responds well to body input. The whole rider bike interface just works a lot better on the Duc the on the R12S, I feel as one with the machine like on no other bike I have ever ridden.
The most surprising thing is that after an often used 200 mile run over a wide range of roads I came away with no discomfort in wrists, neck, back or butt, a situation that was never the case with the R12S, even with bar risers. The custom seat on the Duc no doubt helped the butt, but even so I would much rather spend a long day riding the Duc than the Beemer, which I have to say is a shock and something I never expected. A Ducati superbike more comfortable then a BMW, sounds implausible but it’s true in my case, and by a fair margin as well.
Part of the long term comfort is due to the low screen on the Duc which provides virtually zero wind protection, the upside to this is perfectly clean air flow and no buffeting, the much higher screen on the R12S causes quite a bit of buffeting which I find very tiring.

The Ducati engine is a work of art, the sound, the feel, the sheer power and flexibility is in a different league to a BMW boxer. Throttle response is instantaneous (not soft like on the beemer) yet incredibly controllable and confidence inspiring, even with the massive 70mm Termi race system doing the low end no favours the Duc runs cleaner and has more torque down low then the R12S with full Remus system and pulls seamlessly to a much higher red line without any noticeable torque hump in the mid range. When pushing hard I found it very easy to hit the rev limiter on the R12S, but the Duc seems to pull for ever and only gets more powerful as revs rise. Top end power is simply not comparable to the Beemer with an extra 40hp on tap.
Even though the Duc’s throttle is more responsive than the R12, throttle travel seems longer, the last 25% of throttle opening did not make much difference to output on the R12S but it sure does on the Duc, that last 25% makes all the difference between bloody fast and frightening. After having the front wheel unexpectedly come up in third at around 80 mph I have learned respect, this baby is going to take some getting used to.

Brakes on the 1098 are incredible, not just for their effortless stopping power but for their outstanding feel and control even at walking speed, they never feel touchy just mind bogglingly powerful.
While the brakes on the R12S are very good and perfectly adequate most of the time and have the security of ABS, they can’t compete with the big Brembo setup when you really want to stop. Little wonder BMW chose the same system for the HP2S.

The chassis feels like it’s made of solid rock, no flex or uncertainty here. Spring rates are higher and damping firmer than the R12S, which combined with the light weight translates into less suspension movement and a more “tied down” feel when pushing hard. As delivered there is too much rear preload and way too much compression and rebound damping, this may be fine for a race track but it’s too stiff for a challenging secondary road. After removing a good amount of rear preload to get 30mm sag (the front already had 40mm) and backing off the damping very significantly all round, real road performance is now excellent and not kidney jarring, the R12S is more compliant but less sporty and feels decidedly top heavy with a tendency to fall in at low speeds. The Duc is more consistent and confidence inspiring at any speed, aided by its low weight and centre of gravity.
Stability is a strong point of the Ohlins R12S, and the Ohlins suspended 1098S is just as good if not better in that regard, even over less then perfect roads.

Gear box performance is very similar between the two bikes, both change very well and perform seamlessly and precisely when on the move. The Duc does not clunk into first and second like the BMW, but neutral is a bit harder to find.
The Duc has significantly less drive train lash then the R12S, which helps smooth progress at low speeds; at least you get some advantage for having a chain.

My only significant complaint about the 1098 is the clutch, it’s heavy and has a small take up zone which takes some time to master, it also makes ugly noises when slipping at certain speeds which I have been told is normal.

Things I will miss about the R12S, the heated grips and the mirrors that actually work. I can get heated grips for the Duc if needed and I can live with the bad mirrors.
One thing I wont miss about the Remus equipped BMW is the terrible drone at cruising speeds which made ear plugs mandatory, the Duc is just fine without ear plugs, even with the full open race system, not only that it has a wonderful sound that no flat twin can compete with, with or without twin cam heads.

As expected the 1098S has it all over the R1200S as a sports bike, no comparison. What was most unexpected is the superior comfort, for me at least, YMMV.
If sports bikes are your passion you owe it to your self to get a ride on a 1098 or 1198, the standard seat is poor, but can be fixed for a pittance.

With the R12S heading off for its new home soon, the hot blooded Italian crotch rocket now has a more stately representative of the farther land to keep it company, in the form of an R1200RT, more on that one later.

turboflyer · turboflyer's Garage

That is because you are ridding upside down. You have to be in the states for a true comparison. Yep Ducs do good. Had a 900SS/SP. Have to disagree with the long ride ergos though. Handel like on rails but way to forward below 90MPH for an old guy. Fact I was just looking at them a gain just a few days ago and had a revelation moment. I would love just to have one in my front room. But it take me too long to get to and from the mountains to endure the hand pressure. Just me possibly. No doubt the 1098S is too beautiful for words.

RC51DRAG · 08-07-2009, 10:33 AM

Great report, never thought the 1098 was comfy but then I find the HP2 enduro comfy lol. Enjoy the new ride.

mburgur · 08-07-2009, 11:13 AM

What about year model and price?

AndrewA · 11:39 AM

I have a friend that is looking at a 1098. I'll point him to this thread.
Nice work.
Thanks.

Afterthought: Does the shaft drive spin the other way down under?

JoHNY · 08-07-2009, 03:10 PM

So you think the Duke is better than the R12S then?

2wheelmike · 08-07-2009, 04:38 PM

No doubt the Duc is beautiful and FAST. But comparing to the donkey, er R12S? I think a better comparison will be made in the late fall/ early winter when the S1K is out. I found the stationary seat of the pants impression of the S1K to also be more comfortable than the R12S. And the thrust/performance will be much more comparable. My friend has offered to swap rides with his new 1198S when we ever get time to get to Jalama Beach, so I will get a chance to do the same comparison you've done. Can't wait-

AndrewA · 08-07-2009, 05:36 PM

It is interesting to me how in just a couple of posts this thread has gone from comparing an aggressive sport bike(1098) to a Spot Tourer(R1200S) to a "Superbike"(SKRR).

Strange times indeed.

KMoore · 08-07-2009, 05:52 PM

Personally, if I was choosing between these two, the enjoyment of owning and riding the machine would outweigh the cost of ownership aspect, but in the interest of comparison....
How would the service and repair costs compare? I would think the Duc wouldn't fare too well in a fall off the side stand compared to the Boxer?

shreddr · shreddr's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewA

It is interesting to me how in just a couple of posts this thread has gone from comparing an aggressive sport bike(1098) to a Spot Tourer(R1200S) to a "Superbike"(SKRR).

Strange times indeed.

The last time I looked Ducati was running a bike that looked a lot like the 1098 in WSBK.

It is an interesting ride report, it reminds me a lot of my R11S vs R12S ride report, in that there seems to be no downside to ownership of the more racier model, even if it is purely used for the street. The release of the SKRR will surely get a lot of ink, and in the meantime the hype seems justified when compared to the other I4 offerings.

The 1098 is a lovely machine, and hits a lot of the motivational buttons for me: big bore twin, liquid cooled, upside down fork, Ohlins, anaconda exhaust, trick wheels, etc. If the new BMW SKRR was of a similar nature (big bore twin) I would be first in line for 1. If I had to list my top most desirable bikes they would probably be:

HP2S (a lot of my bling would bolt straight up, but I wouldn't expect much of a performance gain)

KTM RC8 (for all the reasons i mentioned above)

SKRR (the Roundel is the only reason, because I don't think I want an I4)

Ducatis are nice, but they seem so obvious, its almost the top layer of sport bike posing (no offense to anyone here) I guess I like a little bit of exclusivity to my machines, which I am afraid to say may be a component of the SKRR. Time will tell

Mad Otter · 08-07-2009, 07:47 PM

I'm not generalizing...cause I know lots of duc riders that rip, but...there are tons of ducs up here in the bay area that aren't being ridden to 25% of their potential. So to Shreddr's comment about "posing"...hmmm, proof is in the parking lot at Alice's.
Personally, I think Ducs are some of the most beautiful machines on two wheels...they're just flat out sexy! I have only ridden one...a 749 Paso back when I had my K75S...it was a tiny bike so at 6'3" I felt like my head was over the front axle...not a real confidence booster, but it was high on the "cool" factor.

cageyar · cageyar's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Otter

I'm not generalizing...cause I know lots of duc riders that rip, but...there are tons of ducs up here in the bay area that aren't being ridden to 25% of their potential. So to Shreddr's comment about "posing"...hmmm, proof is in the parking lot at Alice's.
Personally, I think Ducs are some of the most beautiful machines on two wheels...they're just flat out sexy! I have only ridden one...a 749 Paso back when I had my K75S...it was a tiny bike so at 6'3" I felt like my head was over the front axle...not a real confidence booster, but it was high on the "cool" factor.

Been a long time since I made the ride to Alice's. Maybe 30 years. Last time I remember some Norton and Triumph posers giving me the stink eye when I rolled up on a Kawi triple, clubman bars, Michelin PZ2's, chambers cackling, and a nice blue haze. When I left, they had already started down the ridge. Split them nice and tight entering a curve. I thought I could hear them coughing.

Mad Otter · 08-07-2009, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cageyar

Been a long time since I made the ride to Alice's. Maybe 30 years. Last time I remember some Norton and Triumph posers giving me the stink eye when I rolled up on a Kawi triple, clubman bars, Michelin PZ2's, chambers cackling, and a nice blue haze. When I left, they had already started down the ridge. Split them nice and tight entering a curve. I thought I could hear them coughing.

Two weeks ago almost the same scenario only different..LOL On the way to Alice's riding two up on my GS...a 916 and a 1098 were slowing us up...stayed in my lane and passed them both on the outside of a tight right hander after about 4 miles of thinking they would let me go by. Saw them later but they wouldn't make eye contact or wave???

tim22 · 08:14 PM

I think it's a bit of an unfair, but realistic comparison (in the original post of the 1098 vs. the R1200S). It would be like comparing a Ferrari to a Ford Mustang--valid to compare, but two different worlds. Both are "sporting," but obviously the Ferrari, while engineered to work on the road, is truly a racing machine at heart with little or no expense held back.

That said, if both the 1098 and the 1200S were parked in my driveway and a voice from above said I can have either one for free, I'd walk toward the Ducati. But if I had to purchase one or the other in my current, "real world" situation (financially), I'd buy the BMW.

But still an interesting comparison and an interesting report.

cyotee01 · 08-08-2009, 12:03 AM

What a relief the change must be.

Every time I park the old 05 BCR (even next to MVs, Ducs & HDs) people of all ages & types want to talk about it, admire the style, colors and always seem to offer some ridiculous estimate of it's $ value.

A 1198 could could stop a lot of that....

OwenM · 08-08-2009, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoHNY

So you think the Duke is better than the R12S then?

What gave you that idea?

OwenM · 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mburgur

What about year model and price?

1098’s are 07 and 08 models, in 09 it was replaced by the 1198 which is basically the same bike with a slightly different color scheme and a bigger displacement motor.
I did not like the 1198 that I test rode due to its nasty throttle response, which I consider dangerous.

The Ohlins equipped 1098S and now the 1198S sell here for the same price as the HP2S ($35k AUD).
My 07 model with 70mm Termi race exhaust and ECU and other improvements would have set the original owner back at least $42k AUD ($34.5k US). I picked it up in mint condition with 1750 miles for the bargain price of $30k AUD or about $24.5k US.

OwenM · 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2wheelmike

No doubt the Duc is beautiful and FAST. But comparing to the donkey, er R12S? I think a better comparison will be made in the late fall/ early winter when the S1K is out. I found the stationary seat of the pants impression of the S1K to also be more comfortable than the R12S. And the thrust/performance will be much more comparable. My friend has offered to swap rides with his new 1198S when we ever get time to get to Jalama Beach, so I will get a chance to do the same comparison you've done. Can't wait-

First off the R12S is no donkey, well if it is it’s a very quick and effective one.

The S1K is a different sort of bike, it’s much cheaper for a start and it’s yet to be seen what limitations that will impose, but more importantly it will feel totally different to ride. The I4’s deliver all their power at very high revs, they just don’t offer big twin torque at middling rpm which is used most often on the road. The Ducs have the highest torque to weight ratio of anything out there and that’s obvious when you ride, you don’t have to rev the cr#p of it to make it go really hard. Strong torque over a wide rev range with excellent throttle response and control is what sports riding is all about as far as I am concerned and that’s what the 1098 delivers.
I don’t know what Ducati have done with the 1198, but the one I rode had very abrupt and unpleasant throttle response, surprisingly it did not run as well as the 1098 at low rpm either, although that could be an individual bike issue.
After riding the 1098 and the 1198 back to back I chose the 1098 as the better overall package.
The Termi 70mm full exhaust system as fitted to my bike is supposed add 12hp and improve torque in the mid range and top end. One would expect low end performance to be a little worse then a stock system but its not bad and still runs cleaner then the 1198 I rode.

The Ducs are tall geared probably for top speed, which is irrelevant for road use. A common mod is to replace the front sprocket for one with 14 teeth in stead of 15 to lower the gearing and improve low end performance, this works particularly well with the big exhaust system.

OwenM · 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewA

It is interesting to me how in just a couple of posts this thread has gone from comparing an aggressive sport bike(1098) to a Spot Tourer(R1200S) to a "Superbike"(SKRR).

Strange times indeed.

Troy Bayliss won the 2008 WSBK championship on a 1980 against R1’s and GSXR’s, so I guess that makes it a “Superbike”.

OwenM · 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMoore

Personally, if I was choosing between these two, the enjoyment of owning and riding the machine would outweigh the cost of ownership aspect, but in the interest of comparison....
How would the service and repair costs compare? I would think the Duc wouldn't fare too well in a fall off the side stand compared to the Boxer?

When I purchased the R12S some of the attractions where the lack of a full fairing and simple maintenance that I could perform my self. The Duc is going to be more expensive to look after but its not that bad, I feel confident I can perform most maintenance tasks and the ones I cant don’t need doing very often, especially since I will not be doing a lot of miles on the Ducati. I have removed all the tupperware to change the oil/filter, inspect the cam belts, air filter etc and its not that scary, its just a bike.
If I where paying BMW to look after the R12S it would cost as well.

I have never had a bike fall off the side stand although I have dropped the R12S on slippery ground with no damage thanks to the BMW plastic cylinder head protectors. A similar incident on any fully faired bike is going to be expensive and the Ducati more so then many, but that’s what insurance is for so I am not too concerned. The Duc is such a light and low bike the chances of me dropping it are significantly less then the R12S.
The R1200RT is more of a concern to me, its big, heavy and the seat is relatively high so the likelihood of a manoeuvring mishap is much higher then the Duc. With all that fairing and exposed panniers its going to cost if it falls over.