IMS Retrofit / Upgrade Products

[Jay Laifman]

I put in the LN ceramic bearings myself many years ago now. If I recall, the warning then was that they weren't good for over 70,000 miles (I may have the actually duration wrong). I'm wondering if there have been any reports of failure akin to the factory bearings? Of course, the reports may be just as non-accurate as the reports of how bad the factory ones were.

[cnavarro]

Originally Posted by Jay Laifman

I put in the LN ceramic bearings myself many years ago now. If I recall, the warning then was that they weren't good for over 70,000 miles (I may have the actually duration wrong). I'm wondering if there have been any reports of failure akin to the factory bearings? Of course, the reports may be just as non-accurate as the reports of how bad the factory ones were.

The IMS bearing should be treated as a regular maintenance item. For example, Wayne's ims kit sold by Pelican was recommended to be changed out every 3 years or 30,000 miles, whichever comes first.

There are literally thousands of cars fitted with LN's classic single row IMS Retrofit that are years past their 4 yr / 50k service interval. Those kits have not been sold since about 2012 and were superseded by the Single Row Pro and the IMS Solution once the patents were granted for both.

The Single Row Pro and Classic Dual Row IMS Retrofits have a 6 year or 75k mile service interval.

This needs to be taken into consideration when determining risk of failure especially when the bearings are past manufacturer recommended intervals.

The IMS Solution is the only truly permanent fix designed for the life of the engine. It has no service interval.

[djnolan]

What about the frequency and cost for an 06-08 Cayman?

[cnavarro]

Originally Posted by djnolan

What about the frequency and cost for an 06-08 Cayman?

The 06-08 models have non-serviceable IMS bearings, however we do recommend removing the grease seal so that engine oil can properly lubricate the original bearing as outlined here:

https://lnengineering.com/products/the-definitive-guide-and-faq-for-porsche-ims-bearings/my06-08-porsche-cayman-boxster-911-ims-bearing.html

That said, there is a company that offers a product that will bore out the IMS access hole to allow extraction of the bearing, but that's a horrible idea. You'll be introducing all kinds of debris into the engine. We've seen several engines suffer catastrophic failures after having this procedure carried out. The only way to change out the bearing is to tear down the engine. Our IMS kits for the 06-08 models utilize an adapter bushing that then makes the IMS bearing serviceable in the future without engine disassembly.

[Jay Laifman]

Good to hear that no one has any reports of failure. It was always a question about how often the originals failed. But there were certainly reports of some failures.

You'd think that if there were failures of the replacements, we'd be hearing about them.

[Steve Hurt]

Lot of "hear say" involving the IMS bearing. I bought a 2002 Boxster S which had a prior history of IMS bearing going/on the way/ bad history. When I bought it 2-3 years ago it had the LN ceramic bearing kit installed and it was failing at 52,000 miles. The correct solution was to put pressurized oil on to that bearing which I had completed. Presently on the 3rd oil change at 5,000 miles the filter does not have any metal or oil sludge on it. Prior oil changes: 1. some metal and oil sludge in the filter; oil tested, 2. very little metal and oil sludge in filter with some sights engine ware and no engine oil testing, 3. Present oil change no metal, no oil sludge, no oil test for now. Will run the present oil for 5,000 miles and get a complete oil test. "Happy as a camper" at this stage. The car is mostly diven in the Southwest requiring oil change interval of not more than 5,000 miles. I change the change element according to the type of weather (wind and sand) I am having in the area.

So much for someone not reporting results.

[ASD]

Originally Posted by ASD

all things considered and it being a 60000 mile 2000, I think ill roll the dice.

three years in, now no issues.77000 miles now,

[Jay Laifman]

I replaced mine 8 years ago, about 60,000 miles since. I guess we'll see. Anyone else hear of or experience the early LN ceramic bearing failure?

[cnavarro]

Originally Posted by Jay Laifman

I replaced mine 8 years ago, about 60,000 miles since. I guess we'll see. Anyone else hear of or experience the early LN ceramic bearing failure?

All IMS Retrofits have a recommended service interval.

https://imsretrofit.com/service-intervals/

The only exception is the IMS Solution as it's the only permanent fix for the IMS bearing issue.

[mcfcinusa]

i'm a maintenance machinist and designed and made my own IMS assembly from 4140 and a bearing brass type bushing for my 97 Boxster.
Also made my own screw on oil filter adapter. Did this many years ago and no problems so far.
Tried to sell them on EBAY and Jake Raby from flat 6 innovations set his lawyer on me and and told me to cease and desist or face prosecution.
I didn't copy his idea or any dimensions. All my own work and proud of it.
My daughter has a 2001 Boxster and purchased a repair kit and tooling. When i was installing it i found the ceramic, bearing wouldn't seat against the face, (it was 3 thou short of contacting it) so i machined the radius so it would let the bearing sit all the way against the face. All went well after that and it still runs. I notified Flat 6 about this but never heard back.

[cnavarro]

Originally Posted by mcfcinusa

Tried to sell them on EBAY and Jake Raby from flat 6 innovations set his lawyer on me and and told me to cease and desist or face prosecution.

Yes, that would be because this design is protected with by numerous patents that you infringed on, specifically U.S. patent numbers 8,992,089, 9,416,697, and 9,909,469. Jake has a patent attorney on retainer to seek out such infringements.

A patent does not cover a product, but rather novel concepts and the lawyer clearly interpreted what he was selling as an infringement of this intellectual property. The spin on oil filter adapter is another novel concept that is covered also by multiple patents.

[NeoAura]

You're right to be thinking about longevity. The earlier LN ceramic IMS bearings did come with mileage recommendations, around 70,000 miles is about right, mostly as a precaution since they weren’t lifetime-tested back then.

[cnavarro]

Originally Posted by NeoAura

You're right to be thinking about longevity. The earlier LN ceramic IMS bearings did come with mileage recommendations, around 70,000 miles is about right, mostly as a precaution since they weren’t lifetime-tested back then.

Just to clarify, even the current IMS Retrofits have a service interval. It's only the IMS Solution which is an oil pressure fed plain bearing that has no service interval.

[NeoAura]

Sounds like you've been proactive with your engine care. You're right, when LN ceramic bearings first came out, there were concerns about longevity beyond 70,000 miles, though many users have surpassed that without issues. So far, there haven't been widespread reports of LN bearings failing like the factory ones did, but as with anything, anecdotal experiences vary. It's always good to keep an eye on performance and listen for any unusual sounds, especially as mileage adds up.

[Sapientoni]

I retired as an industrial bearing predictive maintenance specialist. I had equipment to analyze and predict bearing failures so they could be scheduled for replacement and preventing production interruptions of a $900 an hour employee expense. Depending on the mechanics doing the replacement, this could take from 1 hour to 7 hours. I was the only mechanic who used the 1 hour time method. I got a little dirty, but everybody got dirty doing this repair.
The factory 987.1 is the only IMSB I have experience with. Bearings fail because of "spalling" of the surfaces that are loaded by the operation being supported. Tensioning of the bearing in the 987.1 by the chains puts loading on basically 180° of the stationary inner race. I have observed personally the failure of the 987.1 bearing at 148,000 miles due to the spalling of this surface. Due to the factory design, my suggestion is to turn the stub shaft, without removing the flange, at any clutch change. Usually this might take place around 70-90,000 miles? Turning the stub presents a "fresh", previously unloaded surface for the balls to roll on. This is preventive "tuning" of the bearing.
FYI, the factory IMSB for the 987.1 has 8 balls instead of the usual 7 balls. This earns it the "high capacity" designation. It's a few dollars more when purchasing. My observation of the ceramic bearings available are that they all contain 7 balls. RE: ceramics. Very hard, but possibly very brittle? Correct installation handling is imperative to get what life they will give when installing.

[mikefocke]

Don't let your IMS bearing sit in dirty oil with acids in the oil accumulated over the summer driving season.

Change your oil before you put the car up for winter hibernation.