How many has actually updated their IMS?

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by WhipE350

I am not doubting there is an issue and if I can get in my neighbors pit long enough I would redo my clutch, RMS, and IMS and I would probably just replace with a stock one. Peace of mind and the fun in doing it would be worth it alone.

Good luck on replacing your IMS bearing using the factory unit, the only replacement they are currently selling is the final revision (large diameter) that cannot be replaced without total disassembly of the engine. But it does come with a matching replacement shaft thrown in..................

[WhipE350]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Good luck on replacing your IMS bearing using the factory unit, the only replacement they are currently selling is the final revision (large diameter) that cannot be replaced without total disassembly of the engine. But it does come with a matching replacement shaft thrown in..................

Wonderful, guess I'll wait for Wayne's! Cheers.

[BYprodriver]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Good luck on replacing your IMS bearing using the factory unit, the only replacement they are currently selling is the final revision (large diameter) that cannot be replaced without total disassembly of the engine. But it does come with a matching replacement shaft thrown in..................

There are 2 used OEM bearings for sale on Ebay if you can't wait.

[JFP in PA]

You've got to be kidding me, that's like buying a used condom............jeez.

[BYprodriver]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

You've got to be kidding me, that's like buying a used condom............jeez.

Hey it's going to be another tough year, sometimes something is better than nothing!

CPO IMS bearings ??

[ronster]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

You've got to be kidding me, that's like buying a used condom............jeez.

Yes, but is it a recycled used condom with full warranty?

[harryrcb]

to get back on track, replaced my friends 02 Box S , 98k with an LN Engineering bearing. The one I took out was in perfect shape and he tracks his car. BUT I plan on doing mine next week. BTW if you want his old one I'll mail it to you free.. lol

[Wayne 962]

Originally Posted by harryrcb

to get back on track, replaced my friends 02 Box S , 98k with an LN Engineering bearing. The one I took out was in perfect shape and he tracks his car. BUT I plan on doing mine next week. BTW if you want his old one I'll mail it to you free.. lol

Sure, that would be great. I'll take a look at it, remove the seal and inspect what's inside. Another data point!

Wayne R. Dempsey
Pelican Parts Inc
120 Standard Street
El Segundo, CA 90245

Thx,

Wayne

[harryrcb]

[QUOTE=Wayne at Pelican Parts;5776619]Sure, that would be great. I'll take a look at it, remove the seal and inspect what's inside. Another data point!

You got it Wayne, BTW I sent you a PM when you get a chance.

[mikefocke]

1750 LN bearings now installed per Charles. Oldest Aug 08.

That is an interesting figure as it is now approaching 1% of the Boxsters still around.

[harryrcb]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

1750 LN bearings now installed per Charles. Oldest Aug 08.

That is an interesting figure as it is now approaching 1% of the Boxsters still around.

and that's not to mention those vehicles that did not catch the problem in time and blew up beyond repair

[mikefocke]

Or the many tens of thousands running around with original Porsche equipment and no problems through as many at 200k miles. The LN figures are largely people taking precautions I'd guess. And a few total rebuilds. But many more who just wanted it done.

[ronster]

Originally Posted by WhipE350

I bought my 2000 Boxster 'S' back in early Nov and have done a ton to it because I'm enjoying working on it. I have followed all the forums closely and must admit on many posts there is a lot of fear out there. I'll probably get bashed for my views, though in general people on the Porsche forums are very nice compare to the Benz forums.

Over the past ten years we have in may aspects become a fear driven society, if it isn't something scary then it isn't news. I felt like for awhile I was driving around in a time bomb. I then stepped back and decided to look at the numbers. If there was a %20 failure rate we would have a major mess. So let's say it is maybe as high as %2, heck I have a higher chance of wrecking my car driving to work each day.

I am not doubting there is an issue and if I can get in my neighbors pit long enough I would redo my clutch, RMS, and IMS and I would probably just replace with a stock one. Peace of mind and the fun in doing it would be worth it alone.
If this was an issue on jumbo jets then I would ground them all until fixed.

This is what I guess, and it is only a guess, Porsche created a poor design and farmed out the building of the bearing and then the bearing builder farmed out the seals. Either there were a certain percentage of seals that were poorly made or the assembly of them into the bearing case had a quality issue. The reason I say this is because if it was simply a matter of poor design then we would be talking that it is only a matter of time "when" the bearing will fail, not an "if" the bearing will fail...we certainly seem to be in the "if" category...though some don't talk this way.

I think all the scary posts could be hurting the value of the Boxster, at a %2 rate it shouldn't be in my view. Now I'm not one of the unlucky ones and sure hope I won't be so that is easy for me to say. I will say I'm glad we do have an informed community and for folks like me I'm happy to know about this so I can make an informed decision, but if I had seen post like %20 before I bought, I wouldn't have got mine.

Drive on!

The OEM bearing that came out of mine was "made in Japan." That was surprising given the Germans are known for excellent bearings but not surprising when you figure some cost cutting had to go on to keep the price of the Boxster affordable. The Japanese bearings are as good as the German I've been told but still I was surprised.

[smcgeary]

Old one came out and seemed fine ( 33k miles). The new LN bearing had considerably less resistance though. I don't know if I should be surprised but the old bearing was still too hot to hold when it came out about four hours after the car had been run last. Side benefit (which could be in my head) but the car seems to have more power. lN should have some good data some day since the IMS bearings are sent back to them for analysis when replaced with their update.

[Wayne 962]

I believe the stock ones are all made by NSK, which I'm pretty sure is a Japanese company.

-Wayne

[thstone]

What you're really offering in an IMS update is "insurance" against an IMS failure causing a $10K engine loss.

But at a cost of $2,500-$4,000 to do the IMS update (and everything else that you might as well get done at the same time), the numbers just don't work out because it just doesn't make sense to buy $2,000-4,000 of insurance to insure a $10,000 engine with a 1% loss rate.

Furthermore, it doesn't even make sense to buy this same insurance on a $30,000 car. Why? Because the engine replacement price is constant ($10K) so the insurance company never pays out more than that whether the car is worth $5,000 or $50,000, i.e., the value of the car is irrelevant.

Let's look at some numbers - how much money would an insurance company make insuring a car (regardless of value) with a payout of $10,000 for an engine failure at a premium of $2,000 if they only had to pay out 1% of the time?

Let's do the math for 1,000 cars:
Income: 1,000 cars x $2,000 insurance per car = $2,000,000
Payouts: 1% failure x 1,000 cars = 10 cars; 10 cars x $10,000 payout per failed car = $100,000
Net Profit: $2,000,000 - $100,000 = $1,900,000

If you work the math further, you'll find that the IMS fix is never worth doing. The Achilles Heel of the IMS update is the 1% failure rate. With a failure rate that low, it never pays to have it fixed because the cost is high compared to the payout and so few people will ever need it.

[s_wilwerding]

The big issue is what the failure rate is - I would argue from anecdotal evidence that it is higher than 1% - probably not 25%, but I would say between 5% - 10%. Your point is probably still valid, though I think you also need to factor in the cost of having the engine fail at an inopportune time. If it fails in your driveway, fine, your numbers work. If it fails on a cross country trip, it's going to cost an awful lot in towing, rebuilds, etc. Plus, I'd be willing to be pay a premium to NOT have my engine fail on the road.

But, as you say, it's insurance. Some people like to load up on insurance, so running the numbers will never really convince them.

[mts]

Originally Posted by thstone

What you're really offering in an IMS update is "insurance" against an IMS failure causing a $10K engine loss.

But at a cost of $2,500-$4,000 to do the IMS update (and everything else that you might as well get done at the same time), the numbers just don't work out because it just doesn't make sense to buy $2,000-4,000 of insurance to insure a $10,000 engine with a 1% loss rate.

Furthermore, it doesn't even make sense to buy this same insurance on a $30,000 car. Why? Because the engine replacement price is constant ($10K) so the insurance company never pays out more than that whether the car is worth $5,000 or $50,000, i.e., the value of the car is irrelevant.

Let's look at some numbers - how much money would an insurance company make insuring a car (regardless of value) with a payout of $10,000 for an engine failure at a premium of $2,000 if they only had to pay out 1% of the time?

Let's do the math for 1,000 cars:
Income: 1,000 cars x $2,000 insurance per car = $2,000,000
Payouts: 1% failure x 1,000 cars = 10 cars; 10 cars x $10,000 payout per failed car = $100,000
Net Profit: $2,000,000 - $100,000 = $1,900,000

If you work the math further, you'll find that the IMS fix is never worth doing. The Achilles Heel of the IMS update is the 1% failure rate. With a failure rate that low, it never pays to have it fixed because the cost is high compared to the payout and so few people will ever need it.

Where did you come up with the $10k engine loss figure? When my IMS failed I was unable to get a new engine installed for $10k, my best quote was closer to $14k installed with 2 other quotes north of that (luckily Porsche ended up paying for in under goodwill). I'm sure it can be done for under $10k with a junkyard motor, but I was unwilling to stick a junkyard motor in that had higher miles than the one that just failed.

[mikefocke]

From what I read, engines come in at several price points.

Used ~$3-5k
Jake's cpo ~$7k
Rebuilt Porsche (sometimes on sale) ~$8-13k
Jakes Rebuilt ~$14k
Tuners Rebuilt and enhanced ~$20-30k

Parts from ~$3k to ~$30k, Add in ~$2k labor.

[BYprodriver]

I think of the LN IMS bearing as a Upgrade to a Porsche & it seems that at least 25% of all posts on all forums is about upgrading your Porsche. Porsche claims the latest GT3 makes 1 additional horsepower by installing the RMS backwards. I would not be surprised if the LN IMS bearing made additional horsepower over a OEM bearing especially if worn. Vintage Porsches are often advertised for sale with "all factory updates & upgrades" Boxsters have depreciated greatly in recent years & the IMS issue is one of the main reasons if not the main reason. I see no reason why the LN IMS bearing upgrade should return the amount of the investment at resale time.