Supercharged Race Car Build

[JohnJL]

Victory!

After 4 days of tying up bits abd pieces, getting the motor in, all the electronics and plumbing in we got her started up and ran the cams in.

There were lots of little stuff that crept up, like a crank angle sensor that liked to pick up 2 teeth at a time, a blowoff valve that opened at idle (LOUD!) and funky AF signals but we persevered and got it sorted.

Check out that smile...



We didnt have the intercooler puller fans installed, it wasnt necessary for start-up and we were laser-focused on getting it started. The supercharger noise isnt nearly as loud as I thought when running normally. When the blowoff/bypass valve was opening too easily on idle vacuum the straight-out sound of those straight-cut gears and twisted lobes turning out 16 lbs of boost was ear-shattering! Easily 120 dbs.

Also switching to a 3-wire digital sensor from a 2-wire Ford sensor gave a lot of problems. We're switching back to a 2-wire unit.

The heat that supercharger gives off is enormous. I currently have 25w-60 Mobile 1 in there, self contained. Plumbing and pumping through cooled oil may happen if we go to a transmission cooler and pump.

We are scheduled for a dyno session for running in, tuning and measurements on Wednesday. Can't wait!

Thanks Barbara for your patience, help, lunch and patience again!

[JohnJL]

Oh yeah, and no leaks.

Front-mounted SETRAB oil cooler & thermostat worked with no issues, though we had some fun with oil levels. I emptied 12 liters of oil in, until it came out the neck. Once the whole system was primed, only 1 more liter went in. Once the thermostat opened and teh system filled, it took 4 more liters.

[RarlyL8]

Nice!

[JohnJL]

Thanks Brian, more video and dyno sheets Wednesday...

[TunersGroup]

Originally Posted by JohnJL

Victory!

After 4 days of tying up bits abd pieces, getting the motor in, all the electronics and plumbing in we got her started up and ran the cams in.

There were lots of little stuff that crept up, like a crank angle sensor that liked to pick up 2 teeth at a time, a blowoff valve that opened at idle (LOUD!) and funky AF signals but we persevered and got it sorted.

Check out that smile...

A huge congratulations John !! Fantastic to see and hear it running !!

- Adam

[Miguel Antonett]

Congrats!!!! Great acomplishment, keep us posted on progress.

[Dadofour]

Originally Posted by JohnJL

Thanks Brian, more video and dyno sheets Wednesday...

It's Wednesday morning there, so?

[Dr J]

Congratulations!! Been following your progress and it's great to hear it run.

[JohnJL]

Well, mixed success.

Last Wednesday had some successes and failures.

We spent a few more hours cleaning things up and getting idle set up, and then went over to the dyno for a few hours, finally finishing up at 11:30 PM.

The motor ran well, transmission did its bit and everything held together, which was obviously relieving.

However power was way down from where I expected. Here's a link to the 930/Supercharged forum where I describe the symptoms...

Originally Posted by JohnJL

Had a hugely frustrating night at the dyno. On the plus side...
1. Motor held together, idles find and revs easily. Sounds great.
2. The belts run perfectly, no issues there. They are not slipping.
3. Temps are as expected, intakes never got over 34 degrees C.
4. A/F ratios between 12-13 all the way up.
5. Behaves as-expected up to 3500rpm. Builds 11 pounds of boost up to there.

Now the disappointing parts...I may have more than one problem, appreciate any suggestions;

1. Boost flatlines at 10-11 psi. In fact it hits 11 at 3000 then falls back to 10psi all the way to 6000 rpm.

2. Even at 3000 rpm and 10psi I'm not making the power I would expect. I'm getting 230 ft-lbs and 160 hp at the wheels. Torque goes straight up from 1100 rpm idle to 3000. Those figures flatline at 3500 rpm.

Here's what we've done/observed...

1. Those measurements were verified several times in several consecutive runs. Boost & AFR readings were consistent across the ECU, dash gauge and Dyno sensors.

2. We disconnected the bypass valve and verified it wasnt leaking.

3. There appear to be no leaks. If there were we would have expected different behaviors.

4. Spark is consistent throughout. Adjusting dwell time had no impact.

5. I've spoken to the supercharger dealer. At 6000 crank rpm the s/c is turning at 12,000. This is well below the s/c's stated limit. He also had no theories or suggestions.

6. The only thing we could not verify (due to time) was cam timing. I'll do that Monday. They are DC-20 cams from John Dougherty. I spoke with John and he endorsed these for this application...here are the stats...

DURATIONS .040" .050" VALVE LIFT CENTERLINE SETTING
DC 20 I 248 242 .475" 113 2.3 mm
Super-C2 E 236 230 .455"

A little video for infotainment...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vltwbhvCnms



Anyone else think cam timing could be the culprit or any other suggestions?

Since found at least 3 issues...

1. Cam timing on one side was slightly out. I was hoping to find the cams out more as this would expain the issues we were having but it looks like the 456 bank was out ~0.5mm. The 123 bank was bang on 2.4mm.

2. The TDC mark on the crank pulley was 8 degrees retarded. THis is a issue however doesnt explain the loss of boost.

3. THe idle correction settings were way off.

She now starts fine but idles with a lot of hunt and is a beast to get up/off the trailer and into the garage.

Tested compression, 125-130 on all cylinders. Plug gaps .027-.030. All valves at 0.1MM clearance on the dial gauge. All plugs and all injectors firing.

The ignition map looks crazy, I need some help here. My plan is to install the new harness over the next 2 weeks and neaten everything up. The tuner gets back from holiday then and I'd like to get right over to the dyno then. In the meantime I'd like to clean up the ignition map and would appreciate some help from others running 10-15 lbs boost. What is your idle timing, how early do you ramp up and at what advance do you top out?

your help appreciated...

[Mr Beau]

John,

Is there any way you can remove the supercharger or bypass it and tune the engine without boost--that would help remove one potential source of problems. If you get the NA tune correct then you can but the blower back on and start from there. Ideally you would have different sized pulleys so you can work your way up to the desired level of power. A rule of thumb is 1 degree of retard per psi of boost, so you can check that to see if you are in the ballpark. Do you have any data logs of injector PW, ignition timing, AFR etc?

Regarding the low boost, I haven't checked the size of the blower etc but how are you sure the belt is not slipping?

Good luck with everything!

[JohnJL]

Hi Matt,

The maps I'm using are adapted from this motor when it was N/A. However it is quite a bit different now, with .2L more displacement and 2.5 points less compression.

I do have logs of all the break-in, dyno runs and idle tuning. Aside from some wacky IAC settings which need sorting, timing is all over the place. So while I need to work on fuel too, I'd appreciate anyone's baseline ignition maps as a starting point so that I'm at least somewhat closer than I am now.

I'm sure the belt isnt slipping. It stays cool, makes no noise and shows no signs of wear whatsoever.

Last night it occurred to me that perhaps the clutch was slipping. It is brand new from Patrick but it engages very, very high.

[Tim K]

Sorry, I can't help with any tuning insights; But if the clutch was slipping wouldn't you smell it?

Hope you sort it out.

Tim K

[JohnJL]

Success!

Well, I still have some bugs to iron out (like where did the other 6 psi go?) but we had a successful day on the dyno. Over the intervening weeks I found one cam was slightly out, but more importantly the crank pulley was mismarked by 12 degrees retarded. Completed rewiring and finishing everything off and went to the dyno again tonight.

Here are the results...

All figures are at the wheels in 4th gear. Transmission is a Patrick Motorsports G50. I am not sure of the final drive, need to check with them.

None of the figures or graphs are "corrected." They are as-is at the bags. It was ~20 celcius, maybe 60% humidity. 50 meters above sea level.

I'm happy with the results given the boost, the big question is where the heck did the rest of the boost go. There are no leaks and no blow-off valves. I will be on the phone with the supercharger dealer in the morning.

98 RON Pump petrol from Caltex

Ignition advance stopped giving power at 28 degrees and dropped off from there without knocking.

Redline at 6750 though its built for more but no more power was coming.

AFRs were kept in the high 11s and low 12s as shown in the graphs.

[marcsalleras]

sweet mother of god.....i have seen heaven haha

[JohnJL]

I think I'm gunna need bigger brakes.

[longhornchris04]

Originally Posted by JohnJL

I think I'm gunna need bigger brakes.

Or at least more cooling so you can stop more than once

Might need to buy a few more sets of rear tires too

Either way, you're gunna to have a lot of fun!

[JohnJL]

Video of the runs. Turn up the volume all the way for some of the effect, though there's nothing like the thump in your chest when there in person...

[IMG][/IMG]

[tsiegwart]

John, I'm sure this is a silly question, but does your super charger have a "clutch" off of the pully drive? I know in some marine applications super chargers have a set of presure washers (not sure what to call them), but basically they can alow slippage from the SC pully wheel to the pump. That might explain the flat line in boost.

[JohnJL]

Hi Todd,

So questions are silly, its good to get input in trying to eliminate every possible issue...to answer your question, no there is no clutch assemble. The S/C pulley is bolted directly to the lobe drive.

[TunersGroup]

Originally Posted by JohnJL

Beautiful

Nothing can deliver linear power quite like a supercharger

- Adam