ISIS Not Impressed With Millenial Couple

[Bill Douglas]

There are adventure holidays, where the degree of risk is factored in.

Then there are certain death/suicide holidays such as riding a bike through ISIS territory. Quite different.

[450knotOffice]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

You can only see it with respect to your background. Theirs was different. It may not have looked foolish to them. You need to widen your perspective.

May not have looked foolish to them? Just because some people think the world is actually flat, or others think that a big Polar Bear WON'T kill them, doesn't mean they are not foolish. These two were exceedingly naive and foolish, plain and simple, and they paid the ultimate price, probably shocked that others would actually attack and brutally stab them while they were simply minding their own business just pedaling through the area.

No need to widen one's perspective in this case.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by 450knotOffice

May not have looked foolish to them? Just because some people think the world is actually flat, or others think that a big Polar Bear WON'T kill them, doesn't mean they are not foolish. These two were exceedingly naive and foolish, plain and simple, and they paid the ultimate price, probably shocked that others would actually attack and brutally stab them while they were simply minding their own business just pedaling through the area.

No need to widen one's perspective in this case.

Precisely.

Those two idiots needed to narrow their perspective and close their open minds just a bit. Their brain fell out of their wide open minds they had, and it cost them everything.

It was dumber than eating Sushi at the truck stop because it is 1/2 price at closing time.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

You can only see it with respect to your background. Theirs was different. It may not have looked foolish to them. You need to widen your perspective.

Well, uh - no, I am not seeing this only with respect to my background. That would have been incredibly foolish, even suicidal to have done so - as it proved to be for these two.

I was routinely briefed on and reviewed pertinent information provided by our State Department and other official sources with respect to these places. In other words, I learned about these places before I ever went there, and heeded the readily available advice and precautions provided by many authoritative sources. I went in with the widest perspective possible - certainly not based upon my own background or experiences. There is an old saying in aviation - "learn from the mistakes of others - you won't live long enough to make them all yourself".

These two made the fatal mistake of ignoring or discounting the information available regarding these places. It's not a matter of perspective - they had nothing factual on which to base theirs. They clearly didn't even know enough about the situation in which they placed themselves to form a valid perspective.

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Our family holidays are to countries a bit beyond most peoples comfort zone, we don't do escorted holidays but tend to do our own thing, usually self drive or public transport.

Before we choose a country I do my risk assessment homework, not reading forums, message boards but look at government based such as the UK Foreign Office or the US FBI websites.

We've been to some amazing places and met some cool people without getting ourselves into anything I as a husband/father wasn't comfortable with

There is risk where ever you travel in the world, travel does broaden the mind but it will never make stupid people smart.

[gtc]

Originally Posted by cmccuist

This is so sad and ironic.

These two weren't hurting anyone. They just made a bad decision and paid the ultimate price. Not sure how the vegan/vegetarian part factored in, but there it is.

ISIS Kills Idealistic Couple

That article really lacks perspective.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/travel/were-the-american-cyclists-killed-in-tajikistan-naive-for-traveling-there/2018/08/14/f8212ca8-9b36-11e8-b60b-1c897f17e185_story.html?utm_term=.eafc04fb66af

[Don Ro]

A comment from the above article:

chanceymcgerk: 4 hours ago (Edited)

"The final "pearl of wisdom" from this definite contender for the 2018 Darwin Award...

“I don’t buy it. Evil is a make-believe concept we’ve invented to deal with the complexities of fellow humans holding values and beliefs and perspectives different than our own—it’s easier to dismiss an opinion as abhorrent than strive to understand it. Badness exists, sure, but even that’s quite rare. By and large, humans are kind. Self-interested sometimes, myopic sometimes, but kind. Generous and wonderful and kind. No greater revelation has come from our journey than this.”

HILARIOUS - PRICELESS"

[Don Ro]

https://www.pluralist.com/posts/1824-millennial-couple-bikes-near-isis-territory-to-prove-humans-are-kind-and-gets-killed
.
I agree with whoever mentioned that these two were under the influence.
Some form of lack of consciousness, lack of reality, a mindlessness...perhaps even a brainwashing.
Life is all about cotton candy, fields of Tulips, sugar plum fairies, and isn't it all wonderful.
I wonder about what kind of parenting was modeled for them.
~~~~~~~~~~~
“You read the papers and you’re led to believe that the world is a big, scary place," Austin wrote.

“I don’t buy it,” he continued. “Evil is a make-believe concept we’ve invented to deal with the complexities of fellow humans holding values and beliefs and perspectives different than our own… By and large, humans are kind. Self-interested sometimes, myopic sometimes, but kind. Generous and wonderful and kind.”
.
Some conservatives have framed the tragedy as a cautionary tale about not just the perils of travel but also naivete in general.
.
Some liberals, for their part, view Austin and Geoghegan as simply unfortunate.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Don Ro

Some liberals, for their part, view Austin and Geoghegan as simply unfortunate.

Other liberals would have us widen our perspectives to those of Geoghegan and Austin.

[Jolly Amaranto]

Never been to Tajikistan, but if the roads are anything like Kazakhstan next door, there is no way I would try riding bikes on them. Too many crazy drivers in big trucks.

[onewhippedpuppy]

It’s much like visiting a country and expecting them to speak your language. Not going to get very far in many places. Can’t expect the rest of the world to bend to your culture.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Well, uh - no, I am not seeing this only with respect to my background.

Of course you are. What if they had been missionaries, doing God's work and the hell with the consequences? Christian missionaries have risked their lives in more dangerous places than this. Staying alive may be your only goal, but others have other goals. Missionaries, members of the military, and aid workers often risk their lives in such places. No one (OK, not many people) call them stupid because their goals are widely understood. The fact that you don't understand their goals doesn't make them stupid, it makes you ignorant.

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

You can only see it with respect to your background. Theirs was different. It may not have looked foolish to them. You need to widen your perspective.

On the contrary, they needed to widen their perspective, and unfortunately not having done so was fatal.

They lived in a narrow box, were fed inaccurate information, and died from their belief in their "facts".

To say that we need to adjust to them is quite foolish. We shouldn't be teaching the "facts" that led to their demise.

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by Don Ro

A comment from the above article:

chanceymcgerk: 4 hours ago (Edited)

"The final "pearl of wisdom" from this definite contender for the 2018 Darwin Award...

“I don’t buy it. Evil is a make-believe concept we’ve invented to deal with the complexities of fellow humans holding values and beliefs and perspectives different than our own—it’s easier to dismiss an opinion as abhorrent than strive to understand it. Badness exists, sure, but even that’s quite rare. By and large, humans are kind. Self-interested sometimes, myopic sometimes, but kind. Generous and wonderful and kind. No greater revelation has come from our journey than this.”

HILARIOUS - PRICELESS"

If you don't believe in universal moral standards then there is truth to this.

If a village believes in slavery and cannibalism, and the neighboring village believes the same, and all surrounding villages; then the practice of taking their neighbors for slaves or food would not seem evil. It would be normal.

It would seem to me that there are certain lines of harm that should be universal. Then there are lines that are better drawn by "nation states" to suite their situation.

In Tokyo with a population greater than many of the U.S. greatest cities combined, waste of something that could be recycled is sin.

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

What if they had been missionaries, doing God's work and the hell with the consequences? ... Missionaries, members of the military, and aid workers often risk their lives in such places. No one (OK, not many people) call them stupid because their goals are widely understood.

wdfifteen, missionaries, military personnel, aid workers and teams of Boeing engineers & mechanics are very aware of the risks, study them, and prepare defenses for them.

Very different from this young, idealistic couple who simply decided there are no risks. They ignored widely-known facts.

So open minded their brain leaked out.

[Bill Douglas]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Christian missionaries have risked their lives in more dangerous places than this.

There is a big difference between May kill you and Will kill you.

[JonT]

So many places to ride your bikes why choose ISIS controlled area? to prove your "world is not evil" beliefs? Reminds me of that Pastor that uses poisonous snakes in his sermons then everyone is shocked when he's bitten and dies.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by Dantilla

wdfifteen, missionaries, military personnel, aid workers and teams of Boeing engineers & mechanics are very aware of the risks, study them, and prepare defenses for them.

Out church pastor has a ministry in Turkey, back in the day the Turkish government/businesses wanted to encourage more westerners to visit and were even open to creating christian church's. He took several groups to Turkey over the years, three were a few sketchy moments but no one ever was hurt. I should add they visited only the large relatively liberal (by middle east standards) cities.

A few year back the government changed to very anti American... pastor has not been back to Turkey since.

[cairns]

You can only see it with respect to your background. Theirs was different. It may not have looked foolish to them. You need to widen your perspective.

Don't be a moron. Common sense says you don't swim in croc infested waters. Especially at night. Perspective ain't got nothing to do with it.
Your average dingo had more common sense than these two.

[Gogar]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

You can only see it with respect to your background. Theirs was different. It may not have looked foolish to them. You need to widen your perspective.

I don't think it's necessary to widen your perspective to include the wrong perspective.