London & Glasgow vacation - driving between them?

[Otter74]

I thought it was worth pinging the PPOT UK-resident brain trust for this.

I'll be in the UK on vacation from 11 November to 18 November. Beginning and end of the week will be in London, and 3-4 days or so during the week (dates flexible) will be spent in Scotland, based out of Glasgow. I like London and haven't been since 2012, and a very good friend lives there. I'll be staying with them in Nunhead at the end of the trip, AirBnB in TBD location for the beginning. I've never been to Scotland at all and have friends in Glasgow with an open invitation to visit. I also plan to explore the highlands some because why wouldn't I? I'm sure I'll go to Edinburgh too.

First question is about getting from one to the other. I figure the betting money on cheap-and-easy is to take a RyanAir/EasyJet/whatever flight for 50GBP or whatever the cost. This is probably my least favorite method because I hate discount airlines. Also I might have my Brompton with me. I like taking trains, and in theory a train ride, perhaps overnight, would be nice. But my Glasgow friends say it's unreasonably expensive and British Rail doesn't have the best reputation. How is it? And apparently there is Virgin Rail??

Third option is to drive. In my ideal world I know someone with some fun, interesting car that they lend me to use. Unfortunately I know no such person in the UK (I used to, but he died and his interesting car was worth half a million dollars so, um, no) Renting something 'classic' would be nice, but it's the wrong season and would likely be a lot more than I want to spend. Renting a normal car seems surprisingly cheap, however. I would want to take some A and B roads for nice driving part of the way. Google says a direct drive is about 7 hours. Is this a reasonable option? Can I find nice driving roads?

If it is a reasonable option, is there anything I wouldn't likely think of that I'd want to know about renting a car? I don't want to be anywhere near London proper with a car so would just take a train to some suburban location to pick one up.

[1990C4S]

Have you ever driven on the left? Have you ever driven in London?

[996AE]

take the flight that works best for the itinerary and cost.

Both are super easy by bus or train into City.

Public transportation is great and while admittedly different once you master it its a pleasure

[Mark Henry]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

Have you ever driven on the left? Have you ever driven in London?

Yes they drive on the left and very fast, lots of roundabouts. Nice highways, many very narrow streets.
London (city) has a daily toll rates.
google maps says 7 hours, 404 miles on the M6.

https://www.google.ca/maps/dir/glasgow/london/@53.6671346,-4.437133,7z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x488815562056ce eb:0x71e683b805ef511e!2m2!1d-4.251806!2d55.864237!1m5!1m1!1s0x47d8a00baf21de75: 0x52963a5addd52a99!2m2!1d-0.1277583!2d51.5073509

[MFAFF]

I'd suggest that the train is the most effective and efficient option, from almost anywhere in London getting to an airport will be at least an hour's travelling, plus security time etc. and faffing at the other end, not necessarily worth it. Better off taking the train from London Euston Station and enjoying the 5 or so hour trip.

Train services are pretty good, despite the reputation. The London Euston to Glasgow services are Virgin trains only. Advance ticket purchases do reduce the price a lot and booking a seat is essential, or you might spend a lot of the trip standing up.

See link to get good deals on the trips:-

https://www.thetrainline.com/
or go straight to Virgintrains website.

I'd imagine the return, if booked soon would be about £100-110. Not too bad if you add the travel to the airport at each end to the plane ticket.

I think the sleepers are between London and Edinburgh or Fort William mainly on a Friday night.

If you want a car in Scotland to see a few things then rent one in Glasgow and go from there.

As C4S says driving on the other side is a bit different and its different again in Scotland; roads going north are often single lane in each direction with limited multilane sections and heavy speed monitoring. So travel speeds are slow. I drove back from Aviemore this summer in the 911...and between the sections with posted lists at 60mph but trucks at 50mph and few overtaking opportunities the multilane sections were welcome... with the average speed cameras making rapid progress challenging. (Thankfully I'd had a decent dose of open roads further north.......).

Renting a car in London or outside and driving up is an option, IF you have time to make it a journey in itself, stopping enroute to see things and even a night stop. The route either up the M1 or M40/M6 is likely to be unpredictable. In fact the M6 south of Manchester is a 50 mile long work zone with narrow lanes, variable speed limits and general buggeration. As a drive simply between the two places it is not a good one at all.

There are few nice A roads en route.....most are either east or west of the motorway and would be real diversions. North of Manchester you can drive your heart out on the moors but its a longish way off route. If you want to drive nice roads head north from Glasgow towards Fort William and then up Loch Ness on the east side... or head along the A9 for the views. Glen Coe is spectacular.

I'd suggest that whilst in London public transport is the best option.

[sammyg2]

Man, just think of all the people you are going to have to deal with and put up with.
Pushing and shoving and getting in your way and just making you want to lose it.

[996AE]

Enjoy the culture difference and ride the public transit system

Dont be the ugly rich american guy

Enjoy

[Otter74]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

Have you ever driven on the left? Have you ever driven in London?

I have not. My European driving has been limited to Poland, France and Iceland. Driving a car is the last thing I want to do in London itself.

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Man, just think of all the people you are going to have to deal with and put up with.
Pushing and shoving and getting in your way and just making you want to lose it.

I've been on the Mexico City metro in rush hour, so London ought to be manageable even at its worst

Originally Posted by 996AE

Enjoy the culture difference and ride the public transit system

Dont be the ugly rich american guy

Enjoy

I'm about a thousand miles from the Ugly American, but if anyone would like to deposit large quantities of money in my back accounts, I'd be happy to be the Rich American. I love public transit.

Originally Posted by MFAFF

I'd suggest that the train is the most effective and efficient option, from almost anywhere in London getting to an airport will be at least an hour's travelling, plus security time etc. and faffing at the other end, not necessarily worth it. Better off taking the train from London Euston Station and enjoying the 5 or so hour trip.

Train services are pretty good, despite the reputation. The London Euston to Glasgow services are Virgin trains only. Advance ticket purchases do reduce the price a lot and booking a seat is essential, or you might spend a lot of the trip standing up.

See link to get good deals on the trips:-

https://www.thetrainline.com/
or go straight to Virgintrains website.

I'd imagine the return, if booked soon would be about £100-110. Not too bad if you add the travel to the airport at each end to the plane ticket.

I think the sleepers are between London and Edinburgh or Fort William mainly on a Friday night.

If you want a car in Scotland to see a few things then rent one in Glasgow and go from there.

As C4S says driving on the other side is a bit different and its different again in Scotland; roads going north are often single lane in each direction with limited multilane sections and heavy speed monitoring. So travel speeds are slow. I drove back from Aviemore this summer in the 911...and between the sections with posted lists at 60mph but trucks at 50mph and few overtaking opportunities the multilane sections were welcome... with the average speed cameras making rapid progress challenging. (Thankfully I'd had a decent dose of open roads further north.......).

Renting a car in London or outside and driving up is an option, IF you have time to make it a journey in itself, stopping enroute to see things and even a night stop. The route either up the M1 or M40/M6 is likely to be unpredictable. In fact the M6 south of Manchester is a 50 mile long work zone with narrow lanes, variable speed limits and general buggeration. As a drive simply between the two places it is not a good one at all.

There are few nice A roads en route.....most are either east or west of the motorway and would be real diversions. North of Manchester you can drive your heart out on the moors but its a longish way off route. If you want to drive nice roads head north from Glasgow towards Fort William and then up Loch Ness on the east side... or head along the A9 for the views. Glen Coe is spectacular.

I'd suggest that whilst in London public transport is the best option.

MFAFF, thanks for the very comprehensive response. Glad to hear that the train is a good option, and thanks for the tip on advance purchase. I would love to make a driving trip a journey in itself, but with only seven days I think I'm better off maximizing my time in either place, as much as I'd like to see more of England. My friends in Glasgow do not own a car but had themselves suggested renting one for a day to explore.

I love cities, and my feet and bicycles are my favorite means for getting around them, with an assist from transit when needed.

[recycled sixtie]

I was borne in the UK and the last thing I want to do is drive there. When you get off the aircraft, you are jetlagged and then you transition to driving on the other side of road then it becomes frustrating or even dangerous.

Yes the rail system is quite efficient and quite fast. Forget the bus/coach system as it takes so long to get anywhere. Follow the train instructions but you get a discount with buying a train pass(I forget the term). If you travel to Scotland then you have travel to downtown London to get the right station.

There is a very efficient train/tube to downtown London to get to the correct station that goes to Glasgow. It will take a day to get to Glasgow. Lots of people travel by train. Yo can book seats ahead or take a chance , not book and end up standing for a while or sitting on the floor.

If you are in a hurry then you can fly. I have flown to Paris and Amsterdam from the UK but you might have to travel to another airport(Gatwick) or fly out of Heathrow. Another terminal.

I enjoy the train. Lots of people though. Have a glass of wine or beer and watch the countryside go by. Go first class if you like. Better service and more privacy.

The whole country is a bit of a culture shock but I think it will be worth it for you.

November 11th is Remembrance Day and that is coming up. Look around you in the UK and we have you Mericans to thank for helping the UK overcome the enemy in WW2. Enjoy the trip and I will send you my email address or pm me if you need help.

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Originally Posted by recycled sixtie

The whole country is a bit of a culture shock but I think it will be worth it for you.

We even have the internet now, and moving picture boxes too

Never heard the UK described as a culture shock before

I'm guessing you don't travel much and haven't visited the UK since the war you do know food rationing was stopped a while ago.

OP make sure you conceal and carry in London as it's all gone a bit wild west recently (joke) You will have a great time and should feel very safe out and about

I'd go for the train if you have any doubts about driving, roads are much smaller and traffic moves a little quicker than I'd imagine you're used to

[JeremyD]

Do the train - you can always rent a car there in scotland.

I go frequently - always take the trains whenever possible. London sucks to drive through - driving on the wrong side takes some getting used to - but easier to get off the beaten patch with your own transportation

[LakeCleElum]

Don't drive that time of year with limited schedule.........I've done it in June. With enough time, it's enjoyable after you get north of the Midlands.....Driving on the left takes a learing curve...I'd had already did a few trips to Australia before the UK drive. ..........

This time of year, you will have limited daylight and likely non-stop rain.......Driving in Scotland is lovely, rent a car there.

Don't do what I did in Scotland: Was drinking with fiends at a pub and one yells across the bar asking what I'm drinking...........I yell "IRA"................I meant "IPA".........Everyone was one the floor...True story........

[Willem Fick]

I have done the London-Glasgow-Edinburg trip a few times before. Best not to do in winter months as you have limited daylight. I once did it in February when it snowed and it was a harrowing trip to say the least.

[Skytrooper]

I did this drive back in April. It is a long drive. If I remember correctly @ 8 hours. We spent the night in Penrith to break up the drive. Driving on the left is not that difficult. Like anything else, it does take time to get used to, but if you start in Glasgow by the time you get to London you will be more experienced. Pay close attention to the road signs and roundabouts...and the other traffic entering and exiting.
I have driven in UK and Scotland several times. Our trip in April was my daughters first time driving on the left. As a matter of fact she hadn't driven anything in the prior 4 months. The first hour was interesting to say the least, but she warmed up to it quickly. Of course she has applied to Oxford and Edinburgh for her Masters program. So, I am sure to be driving over there again.

Have a great time ! We love it over there !

The train would be an excellent mode to transport between the cities. Just get a car if you need to for sightseeing. The road from Inverness to Fort William however can prematurely age you, depending on the size of car you have. It is a beautiful drive. Driving from there to Glasgow through the mountains is interesting to say the least.

[petrolhead611]

Over 60's can be eligible for a Senior Railcard I believe.Discounted fares

[Otter74]

Quick followup to say that I took the train and was glad I did - thanks for the advice. Fast, easy, smooth, relaxing. London Euston to Glasgow Central in 4.5 hours. Far better than driving would have been.

[Skytrooper]

Thats great ! Glad everything worked out
We spent just over 2 weeks driving around seeing things that my wife, daughter, and I were interested in. We saw the Kelpies, Edradour distillery, Edinburgh, Roslyn Chapel, Inverness, Culloden moor, Loch Ness, Speyside, the Highlands, North sea, Fort William, Ben Nevis, Canterbury, Dover, Brighton Beach, and ended in London. All this was after spending a week in Oxford. With so many destinations it just worked out better to drive...plus all my daughters belongings from her term at Oxford. I just didnt want to haul that in and out of stations all the time.