Audi Start/Stop System
 

Daughter has a 2017 Audi A6 which I drove quite a bit over the weekend, my first exposure to a start/stop system. I guess you get used to it but I found it annoying. I wonder if it really cuts down on emissions that much when driving in traffic like we encounter in this area (Houston in general) ??

Any other opinions/thoughts on this ??

I recently started driving a Ford F150 rental that has the start/stop system. Bugs the heck out of me, I always turn it off but it defaults to back on again after you turn off the ignition. PITA.

My general thought is that it is a last-ditch attempt to attain some kind of compliance for a strictly IC powertrain. The wear in the starter and engine bearings must be horrible. (I wonder if they use any kind of pre-oiler to reduce wear? I never could find info on that.)

https://www.audi-technology-portal.de/en/drivetrain/engine-efficiency-technologies/start-stop-system_en

https://www.knowyourparts.com/technical-resources/drive-train/audi-startstop-system-tsb/

Bought the wife a 2016 Audi Q5 . Has the start/stop feature. It can be overridden via button on the dash. That button is pushed - ALL the time.

Side note; Carista is an awesome little tool for customizing the settings on your Audi. $13.00 and I have several new/customized settings that the dealer would literally charge me $100's to complete.

My wife's 2017 Macan has that. The first time I drove her car I went around the block, came to a stop and I started cussing the POS that can't idle and just died. Then I let off the brakes and it started up and off I went. It is fairly easy to program the key to turn that off as default. So it no longer dies at stops. I presume in a mild climate, and doing a LOT of stop and go driving it might save a little fuel and pollution. For our driving, it is just annoying, and turned off.

A single car? Doesn't save much, but if hundreds of thousands of cars all had it, it would add up to something I'd guess.

My first experience with a stop/start feature. I rented a car and the first time I came to a stop, the car died. I thought the car broke down. I will admit it took getting use to. I don't care for it either. In was a PITA in start/stop traffic.

Drove an Audi all over Germany with it. At first I thought it would stall when stopped until the light bulb clicked. Took a couple of days to get used to but after that, it’s starting was so seamless that I never thought of it again.

If you fixate on anything enough you can make it annoying.

My Q5 Hybrid does this of course, but after a bit I stopped even noticing it.

It wasn't all that long ago when cars/trucks didn't always just start right up when you hit the key. Sometimes it took a bit of cranking to get them fired up, and occasionally they wouldn't start at all. The IC engine is now so advanced that starts are virtually guaranteed each & every time, which makes this start/stop technology possible in the first place.

For the record, I don't like this feature either and will turn it off every time. Kind of reminds me of those old motorized seat belts that were a lame attempt to get people to buckle up. More "fixes" forced upon automakers in order to meet ever-tightening safety/emission standards.

I think it's about fuel economy and emissions, but I think the bigger factor is the economy.

I don't much care for it either. I think if you've got a Porsche and hit the "sport" button (if you've got the Sport-Chrono option) it disables it or changes it some way.

I'm sure that you get used to it.

You're wrong, unless you only stop at stop signs and never have to wait for someone else to go first, so your stop is super short.

I'll summarize the video below.
1 start-stop systems depending upon the traffic can increase fuel economy anywhere from 4-9% over the same vehicle without it.
2 The starters for cars with a start-stop system are different and designed to be more robust to start and stop the vehicle many, many more times, more frequently than the starters that the rest of us are used to.
3 In a very particular study (1.5L 4cyl) starting the car takes as much gas as it takes to let the car idle for ~7 seconds. Since pretty much any stoplight that we have to stop at is longer than 7 secs, it'll help.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/dFImHhNwbJo" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

4-9% savings over cars without it.

So, if everyone drove vehicles 15,000 miles a year and they all got 30 mpg over the course of that 15k miles, they'd use 500 gallons of gas. If they had a car with start stop, then they'd use 455-480 gallons of gas instead (depending upon whether they were in light or heavy traffic).That's probably 1.5-3.5 tanks of gas a year, which is not completely inconsequential. And that's assuming the average fuel economy is 30 which I suspect is way off.

My wife's X3 has it and it's annoying. On top of that, there is some sequence of events that will occasionally put the trans in neutral and refuse to re-start.

Not inconsequential when multiplied over 100s of thousands of cars in the next few years. I know I want cleaner air for my grandchildren since the current rate of children with asthma is off the charts.

My Hyundai Ioniq does it, but it always pulls away from rest in electric motor mode only, and if there is enough juice in the battery it carries on in electric until it reaches a steep uphill or you push the gas pedal down hard.It will go over 70 mph on the highway in electric mode again until it reaches a steep hill or you mashbthevthrottle

My BMW has that feature. One click of the button and it disables it (has memory too so its disabled for good.) The owners manual warns that it puts more wear and tear on the car so even the manufacturers acknowledge it.

I like it. I hate idling, and in the M2 it is a fun muscle memory exercise since you have to be in neutral with the clutch out. I then time the light, my foot, and my gear selection to make it as seemless as possible, while still “winning” the stoplight drag.

Our new GTI doesn’t have it, and I actually find myself missing it.

I drove a Scota Superb in Ireland with that feature in it. (Horrible car overall but that is another thread) It was a 4cyl turbo diesel with a 6 speed manual. I have heard cars next to me at red lights with it in the states with the engine stop, when this thing shut off the first time, I looked down to see if something was being indicated as wrong on the dash and it was functioning properly so I just assumed we had the engine stop feature.

I guess because I was in a strange car in a strange place it was the least of my worries, so it did not bother me.

One cool feature I did like, I stalled it once in a parking garage, I pushed the clutch in real fast and reached for the ignition and it was already restarting the engine. I thought that was pretty slick.

Super annoying, I default to defeating the feature when I have it in rentals. I suspect it’s another feature that helps the manufacturers meet the CAFE requirements but not that useful in the real world. Especially since most people turn it off.;)

I was just thinking I was in a Ford Fusion Hybrid over Thanksgiving in Texas and it has that same feature. It was a more interesting car because it tried to run on battery power as much as possible.

I ran the gas motor once the battery was dead then harvested energy from stopping and coasting.

My best guess from driving it for a week was that is had about 5 miles battery range. When we took off in the morning I noticed it would run on batter for a few miles before the engine kicked on, unless I gave it a lot of throttle then the gas motor would kick on.

At red lights it was silent and was take off silent too using the electric motor over the gas.

It was pretty slick, I was getting 40MPG with it mixed driving.

The Scota I was driving in Ireland seemed to be getting over 50 MPG. We drove it a week and never put diesel in it.

My wife’s Evoque has it, so does my Panamera, on the 4 cyl, it’s annoying, on the 8 not so much

Wow, only 40mpg from the Ford Hybrid. My Hyundai Ioniq gives up to 87 mpg in the summer( 79 mpg US) around town.In the winter on 70mph cruise it gives 73 mpg( 67 mpg US)

I have a 2017 Volt and I find it annoying when the ICE comes ON. :D

I leave it on on my 535i. I'm used to the shut off at traffic lights and the hesitation off light while waiting for the starter to kick in. I run it in ECO mode most of the time, too. Can't believe I get 21 mpg in primarily city driving. The ECO mode is pretty neat as it feels like the tranny decouples while coasting and there is no resistance.

My 991.1 has it... It's permanently off thankfully.. Side benefit of the feature is (even when off) it'll restart the car real fast real smoothly if you accidentally stalled ;-) never happened, who, me ?

My Wife's audi has it too, it is however not defeatable like in my Porsche. Therefore she drives in S mode all the time to disable it, which is actually worse on MPG.. talk about an annoying feature producing opposite results !

I asked the dealer if they are starting to replace starters or seeing engine issues, he swears not, but it's only been out of a couple years as an undefeatable feature, so logic tells me it'll hurt the engine/cost a new starter down the road. Most damage being done at startup...

I hate using the start/stop system when i'm driving on the streets. Only time I use it is on the freeway... in Porsche's at least, when you let off the gas slowly, the revs drop down to pretty much idle. Works great on flat roads or roads that slope down.

This is no doubt a German invention. In Germany, even before this feature, the car would be off anytime you are stopped for more than 2 seconds. There were even traffic lights in some cities that had a counter on them to show how long the light would be red, so people both knew if it was still worth shutting down for it and when to start the cars back up again.

So, I think this feature was born in Germany and just made its way across the pond recently. It was already a feature on a rental in 2011 if I recall, when I was visiting and getting a ride in a C class MB. The starter wear is not an issue, you can overbuild that and if you think of it, the actual "on" time of the components is minimal.

I don't care for the feature but would never disable it as it is saving fuel. I don't have a vehicle with it currently.

The Germans may be one extreme but the US Americans are the other. They idle their cars all the time, waiting for someone, in the drive though, warming it up (?), standing next to it smoking etc. etc. - gas is still way too cheap apparently.

G

I guess we now know why Ford and GM are not making sedans anymore.

Your Korean car is kicking their collective asses.

Drove an Opal with that feature in France.
I was coasting out of gear at 55mph on twisty mountain roads. Mmmmabye a little fast.
A semi appears across both lanes at one turn.

That's when I found out the power steering shuts off with the engine.

Picked up a GLC300 last year with this, grown to like it quite a bit. Douchnozzles driving like constipated grandparents on Xanax bother me less when I end up sitting through two lights because of them lack of interest in arriving this century.

The Merc has the equivalent of dropping the car out of gear on the highway when coasting (glide mode). Initially programmed the pre-set modes to disable the auto stop, then realized I was being stupid since I sit in start/go traffic a lot. Mileage went up noticeably.

I encountered the auto stop /start system only once, in:2010 in a Kia Cee'd in the UK.
I drove away from Heathrow, onto the M25 and after a few miles had to stop for a tailback. When I came to a stop, the engine died. I was surprised and restarted the engine. When it happened the second time I guessed what was going on and quickly got used to it. I was glad to have it working for me,given the cost of petrol.

Best
Les

The Ford Edge is an SUV. Since they normally get 19-26 or 22-29 depending upon the options (turbo 4cyl or turbo 6cyl), going up to 40 in mixed driving is pretty good for a large vehicle that weighs 4600#.

It's not like every hybrid is going to get 90 mpg whether it's a sub-compact, mid-size, SUV or city bus.

You might expect that when comparing a car to an SUV. But sure, you could probably also compare a Ford Fiesta hybrid to a hybrid city bus and come away thinking that Ford was amazing and those city bus manufacturers suck.

The only time I want my car to start or stop is when I tell it, not the other way round

It is my understanding that the disable button goes away in MY2020 so the start/stop cannot be disabled, ever. Current cars that use the start stop on the EPA test are the ones that when you turn it off every time you start the vehicle so it must be turned off again every time you start the car. Those that do not use the start-stop in the EPA test can have the disable function stay on.

Big Brother is imposing this as another standard item that cannot be disabled, HELP!

I should have used green text. I started to type something about apples and oranges then deleted.

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I drove a 2017 F150 and my parents' 2019 Subaru Forester Sport with this feature, both a little annoying with the vibration on shutdown and the slight delay on startup. But we just picked up a 2019 Highlander SE and I must say the whole process is barely perceptible. Smooth shutdown and very quick (and still smooth) startup. I can live with it. I imagine the technology will improve going forward.

on the two Mercedes I drove it was extremely noticeable, caused a delay launching at a light and I hated the system. Those both need it deactivated at each start, another super annoying feature.

Oh, the other nice feature on the Highlander is that it only shuts down with a certain amount of pressure on the brake, more than what is necessary to hold at a stoplight,and more than I typically use. It was a couple days into ownership that I discovered that it had start/stop in the first place. So, if I don't want to shut down, I just brake normally. If I know I'm coming up to a potentially long stop, I press a little harder to shut down. While this may not "optimize" the fuel and emissions savings as intended, it's a nice feature for the driver.