Michael Andretti F1 1993 back story

[javadog]

Speaking of Sandy Andretti, Michael's wife in that era, McLaren complained that she wanted to be in the pits during the weekend and have access to a radio headset. Fairly commonplace at the time in Indycar, but McLaren was offended that she would be so demanding... They also did not like the way she dressed, she attracted too much attention. Hard to believe, given the circus atmosphere in F1.

Then again, Ron Dennis is a very compulsive person (I'm watering that down) and likes things just his way. An OCD perfectionist, driven to distraction by fairly minor things. To illustrate, at the beginning of his recent misadventures with Honda, McLaren designed a car that was just about shrink wrapped around the Honda engine. This created all sorts of overheating issues, so some of the Honda engine problems were not really Honda's fault but a result of inadequate cooling from the two tight body work. Nevertheless, Honda took the blame. Here's a short anecdote, by a McLaren employee, about that sort of issue :

"For instance, a few seasons ago the team suffered 'heat-soak' issues with the bodywork burning around the exhausts each time the car stopped in the pitlane. An old rag, soaked in a bucket of cold water was laid onto the sidepod each time it returned from a run and was reversed into the garage, to alleviate the problem. When Ron next attended a race and saw this going on he hit the roof. Next race they had nicely tailored and shaped black towels, each beautifully embroidered with the drivers initials, and the bucket was kept well out of sight."

[herr_oberst]

Originally Posted by greglepore

Very few former drivers have had his level of success as an owner either. Really, none. Bobby Rahal comes close.

Ganassi was a driver, so was one old guy, can't quite remember his name, Roger something?

[herr_oberst]

Originally Posted by javadog

what with his dad urging him on, and the rest is history.

Pretty sure his dad was as much a detriment to his success in F1 as any other single factor.

Mario thought Michael would be able to participate in F1 the same way he (Mario) did in the '70's - i.e. fly in on the Concorde, kick ass, take names and go home. F1 in the 90's was a whole 'nother level of ruthless. Senna, Piquet, Prost, Lauda, those guys took no prisoners.

[javadog]

I would love for someone to explain to me sometime how Michael living full time in Europe during 1993 would have given his Ford engine 80 more horsepower, or cured the TAG software of it's endless glitches. I am more likely to blame Cosworth and Ford for the ****ty engine they built and McLaren's own software engineers that wrote the software, but what do I know?

[javadog]

Here is a photo from Nigel Mansell's first IndyCar test, at Firebird Raceway. Prior to taking the IndyCar out for a run, he took his Cadillac rental car out to see which way the track went.



There is video of this somewhere on the Internet.

[herr_oberst]

Originally Posted by javadog

I would love for someone to explain to me sometime how Michael living full time in Europe during 1993 would have given his Ford engine 80 more horsepower, or cured the TAG software of it's endless glitches. I am more likely to blame Cosworth and Ford for the ****ty engine they built and McLaren's own software engineers that wrote the software, but what do I know?

On the one hand you talk about Michael doing AMAZING things with a car that he barely knows and is down by 80 hp and isn't close to sorted. Then you have all these anecdotes where the team is sabotaging his success.

I'm just spitballling here, but lets say that he worked on his relationship between tests and race meetings with the engineers and the mechanics. Spent some time learning about the individuals and their families. Maybe in those off hours they might have told him he had to shift manually at the start from first to second to activate the software.

Schumacher famously knew the names of the wives and kids of the people he depended on to win races. Those people were happy to dig a little deeper because they knew success was a team effort.

[javadog]

There's no question, that it would be nice if they all were best friends and went down to the pub in the evening and had a beer.

Having said that, explain to me how an F1 team as prominent as McLaren can forget to tell the driver to shift the car manually after a race start.

Explain to me how bonding with the team would have given him 80 more horsepower. Or cured the electronics issues.

It's not like they weren't motivated to fix these problems themselves, if not for Michael, then for Senna, who was arguably the biggest name in the sport.

The point I'm making, is that he got a bad rap that he really never deserved and the reason given by the press and some of the pundits was 100% bull****. The problems laid elsewhere and anybody that truly followed the sport knows that.

Do take note that Ayrton Senna bailed from the team at the end of 1993, just as soon as he could ink a contract with Williams.

The Andretti's have always been controversial, some people like them, some people don't. Only fools would question their raw ability, the rest doesn't really matter. I saw some of these guys in their prime and I won't forget them. Another one I remember well was when AJ Foyt showed the sports car elites at Daytona that he could drive just about any ****ing car in any ****ing weather. That one was a lot of fun...

[astrochex]

Originally Posted by greglepore

It was no secret around the Lehigh Valley that his missus at the time was a loon. To Michael's credit, he came around on that. Very few former drivers have had his level of success as an owner either. Really, none. Bobby Rahal comes close.

You forgot about Roger Penske, unless you are only comparing former Champ/Indycar drivers.

[javadog]

Maybe he was thinking of successful drivers... Roger's career behind the wheel was not one for the record books. Hell of a team owner and businessman though...

[herr_oberst]

Originally Posted by javadog

Maybe he was thinking of successful drivers... Roger's career behind the wheel was not one for the record books. Hell of a team owner and businessman though...

Hmmmm.....

"In the same year as his first racing win, Penske also graduated from Lehigh University with a business degree (industrial management) and went to work as a sales engineer for Alcoa Aluminum. Continuing his racing career, Penske won the F Modified in 1960. In 1961 he bought a Cooper and a Maserati, rebuilt a Cooper-Climax with an aluminum body, persuaded Zerex to sponsor him, and started to race professionally. Penske's first professional win was at Vineland, New Jersey, in a Maserati nicknamed the "Telar Special." He also set a race speed record with his win at Road America. Penske then won three nationals in a row in 1961, the year he became the SCCA National D Modified champion and was named Sports Illustrated 's SCCA Driver of the Year.

In 1962 Penske was named the New York Times Driver of the Year when he became the United States Auto Club champion, driving in Monaco with the Cooper-Climax and in Sebring, Florida, with a Cunningham. In 1963 Penske won the National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing (NASCAR) Grand National Series race. In 1964 he won five races; two of them were the Nassau Tourist Trophy, when he drove a Chaparral Corvette Grand Sport, and the Nassau Trophy, when he beat Bruce McLaren, A. J. Foyt, and Dan Gurney. The race that established Penske as one of the world's best was the 1964 Governor's Trophy race in the Bahamas, where he confronted Foyt and Wait Hansgen, beating Foyt on the last lap."



Read more: https://www.referenceforbusiness.com/biography/M-R/Penske-Roger-S-1937.html#ixzz5b1DSw4LO

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Originally Posted by javadog

Having said that, explain to me how an F1 team as prominent as McLaren can forget to tell the driver to shift the car manually after a race start.

Surely the onus is on the driver to understand how to drive a car, maybe you should have posted...

'Explain to me how a professional driver as prominent as Micheal never thought to ask how to change gear after a race start.....'

You seem to be blaming everyone else but the driver, as herr_oberst so well pointed out a driver needs to get involved more than just driving, this is one of the main the underlying problems for me. Read his posts!

Dude, get a grip, F1 teams don't sabotage their least favourite driver, manufacturers championship is worth so much more to a team than any drivers championship both in money and marketing value.

McLaren and Ron aren't blameless but I'm sure Micheal is replaying his memories with a slight bias toward himself not making any errors on his approach to the season

[scottmandue]

To the OP thanks for posting this, back in 1993 I was excited to see an Andretti back in F1 and sad when it didn't work out.

Originally Posted by herr_oberst

I'm just spitballling here, but lets say that he worked on his relationship between tests and race meetings with the engineers and the mechanics. Spent some time learning about the individuals and their families. Maybe in those off hours they might have told him he had to shift manually at the start from first to second to activate the software.

Schumacher famously knew the names of the wives and kids of the people he depended on to win races. Those people were happy to dig a little deeper because they knew success was a team effort.

Honest question, does Hamilton know the names of the wife's and kids of the guys on his team?

Originally Posted by Captain Ahab Jr

Dude, get a grip, F1 teams don't sabotage their least favourite driver, manufacturers championship is worth so much more to a team than any drivers championship both in money and marketing value.

Felipe Massa (and Alonso's Renault teammate) may have a different opinion on that point.

Maybe not sabotage but they may spend more time on the car they need to win for points and publicity.

[rpastir]

Originally Posted by Captain Ahab Jr

I'm sure Micheal is replaying his memories with a slight bias toward himself not making any errors on his approach to the season

Maybe so. However, all of the reasons that have been floated for Michael’s less than stellar F1 career (that are attributable to Michael), seem like bullsh|t to me. Especially the “not living in Europe” reason.

I’ll freely admit that I’m an Andretti fan (I live about 15 min from Nazareth, PA)...but c’mon...that situation that Michael was put in was a sh|t sandwich.

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

To the OP thanks for posting this, back in 1993 I was excited to see an Andretti back in F1 and sad when it didn't work out.

Honest question, does Hamilton know the names of the wife's and kids on his team?

Yep, every single one of them, right down to the grand kids too

Here are just the guys looking after his engine

[greglepore]

Yes, I agree I left Rodger out. He's from an entirely different era. Chip is a good dude, but wasn't much of a driver. AJ, genius driver, never had the business acumen to be an owner.

I looked at Sandy's divorce house several years ago when it was on the market. Her taste hadn't changed much.

[herr_oberst]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

To the OP thanks for posting this, back in 1993 I was excited to see an Andretti back in F1 and sad when it didn't work out.



Honest question, does Hamilton know the names of the wife's and kids on his team?

Don't know, (Don't really care about F1 any longer. I used to care a lot.) My point is, from the fact that Schuey DID know all of his team members that intimately, you can extrapolate that he was spending A LOT of time around them in order to learn as much about every aspect of the operation as he possibly could so that he would be more successful on race day. I really doubt if he wouldn't have known that the 1-2 shift on launch would be manual, not auto.

[greglepore]

I'll admit to an Andretti bias, in my garage still hangs a board of photos I took of the two of them in 92 at Pocono, back in the day when you could walk around hot pits during practice and qualifying. Several of them huddled discussing the car, and many of Mario with his famous pout.

[herr_oberst]

Originally Posted by Captain Ahab Jr

Y

Here are just the guys looking after his engine

Okay, I really don't know if you're sh!#ing us or not?

If not, that's absolutely redonkulous!!

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Captain Ahab Jr

Surely the onus is on the driver to understand how to drive a car, maybe you should have posted...

'Explain to me how a professional driver as prominent as Micheal never thought to ask how to change gear after a race start.....'

You seem to be blaming everyone else but the driver, as herr_oberst so well pointed out a driver needs to get involved more than just driving, this is one of the main the underlying problems for me. Read his posts!

Dude, get a grip, F1 teams don't sabotage their least favourite driver, manufacturers championship is worth so much more to a team than any drivers championship both in money and marketing value.

McLaren and Ron aren't blameless but I'm sure Micheal is replaying his memories with a slight bias toward himself not making any errors on his approach to the season

The information I posted above was not taken from Michael's recent interview with Marshall Pruitt. It was taken from material that was compiled more than 20 years ago when Tim Considine wrote his book. It wasn't Michael's vague recollections of the past, it was his contemporary recollections of what he had just been through.

Those recollections are consistent with those of other people that were there during the year and are familiar with what took place. Even Ayrton Senna came out in public in support of Michael after he was sacked, as he knew firsthand what a raw deal Michael had gotten. He even held a press conference about it.

Keep one thing in mind. Michael never publicly blamed others, he kept his observations to himself and only related some of them when asked. He's been reluctant to talk about the issue, people like me seem to talk about it for him. He could have gone public and made all sorts of noise, but that wasn't the type of person he was.

I do realize the value of constructors points. 1993 was an era in which the top six scored points, unlike today. In those days, they were truly precious. I'm also aware of any number of instances where teams did some underhanded things, that cost them finishing positions. I'm sure you were aware of even more, given that you have been heavily involved in the sport for many years.

You and I will not agree on the subject, as we have different points of view. You have worked for McLaren, I haven't. Perhaps you even like Ron Dennis, I don't know. I just happen to put as much blame on McLaren as I do Michael for the problems of the year and I will go to my grave thinking that Ron Dennis is one of the biggest *******s to have been in F1. Granted, he wasn't as much of an ******* as someone like Bernie, but after 50 years as a fan of the sport, the politics and other bull**** has gotten the best of me and I have lost my enthusiasm for it.

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

Felipe Massa (and Alonso's Renault teammate) may have a different opinion on that point.

Maybe not sabotage but they may spend more time on the car they need to win for points and publicity.

Forgot about Piquet Jr., now that was sabotage

Big difference between sabotage and favouritism, just ask Massa or Bottas or Kimi

Much more of a McLaren, Ron Dennis and Bernie fan than Micheal Andretti fan, as the former contributed enough to allow me to buy my house

Quite happy to swap sides if the Andretti's want to pay for my man cave build