Tesla: The Great Short

[legion]

Originally Posted by KC911

Or Lucent

I can pick 'em....yes I can!

Man, when I lived in Naperville Lucent had a half-dozen beautiful buildings on the north side of town. Then they fired all of their experienced engineers in '99 to make one quarter's numbers. IIRC, they made their numbers but ceased being a viable company after that.

[RWebb]

Lucent.... let me think... who ran it into the ground....

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Technically the source inspection issue shouldn’t be on SpaceX, it’s on the supplier. It’s very common in aerospace for a supplier to test their own products and provide a test report along with the product. The end customer is involved in approving the test procedure and the supplier overall. In rare instances companies will test supplier parts upon receipt, but in most cases it is a supplier task.

The issue is the price Space-X is willing to pay for anything. I know engineers who worked there and they left because they were starving. You pay sub-standard rates you get sub-standard parts.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by red-beard

The issue is the price Space-X is willing to pay for anything. I know engineers who worked there and they left because they were starving. You pay sub-standard rates you get sub-standard parts.

True, they do burn out engineers quickly. And they are well known for using parts qualified to aerospace standards rather than space standards to save cost. BUT, it doesn’t absolve their supplier from blatant fraud. I’m glad to see this guy is facing jail time.

[biosurfer1]

Saw this on another forum that discusses Tesla often (Note: I am not the "I" referenced):


287 Days ago I said this:
"Does *anybody* expect him (Musk) to abide by the terms of the agreement requiring all his statements about the company in all media to be vetted beforehand?
I sure don't.
My expectation:
We'll see more lies from him, unapproved. Some will be material."


It's 82 days since Mr Musk promised Tesla insurance in about a month. (not available yet).

It's 84 days since Mr Musk said there will be a million fully autonomous Tesla robotaxis by next year. (and that the price of Tesla cars was about to rise substantially as a result, so you should buy one soon)

92 days since Mr Musk said Tesla would produce 500,000 vehicles in the next year, then reiterated that guidance.

166 days since Mr Musk said Tesla would likely be cash flow positive in all quarters going forward.

82 days since Mr Musk reported that Tesla lost $702.1 million in Q1 2019.

256 days ago: "By next year, a Tesla should be able to drive around a parking lot, find an empty spot, read signs to confirm it’s valid & park."
...and my fave, it's 28 days since he said he deleted is Twitter account.
At least that last one is not financially material, except indirectly.

The clock is still ticking on a few of those, but it seems unlikely any will prove true.

[Sooner or later]

Tesla’s new Roadster is going to come with an optional ‘SpaceX package’ that will include cold air thrusters to improve performance.

Now CEO Elon Musk says that the thruster will be hidden behind the license plate.

When first unveiling the vehicle, Musk claimed a list of insanely impressive specs for the new Roadster, including 0-60 mph in 1.9 sec, 620-mile of range, and more.

Musk has been teasing those specs as the “base specs” and other versions could be even crazier.

Later, he even said that Tesla will offer a ‘SpaceX package’ that will include cold air thrusters.

At first, the CEO said that these thrusters, which basically amount to small rocket engines, will “dramatically improve acceleration, top speed, braking and cornering”, but he also said that it would “maybe even allow a Tesla to fly.”

He talked about the Tesla Roadster even being able to hover over the ground.

It’s still unclear what those thrusters are going to look like on a car, but now Musk says that they will be subtle and the rear thruster is even going to be hidden behind the license plate:

[red-beard]

Is that from the Onion?

[biosurfer1]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Is that from the Onion?

You mean Elon? No, apparently he is a real person who runs a company.

😁

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Is that from the Onion?

Nope, legit


https://electrek.co/2019/07/13/tesla-roadster-spacex-thruster-hidden-license-plate-elon-musk/

[red-beard]

Ummmm. Has he "legitimately" gone insane?

[Racerbvd]

[sugarwood]

fElon is mentally ill.

[island911]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

Tesla’s new Roadster is going to come with an optional ‘SpaceX package’ that will include cold air thrusters to improve performance.

Now CEO Elon Musk says that the thruster will be hidden behind the license plate.

When first unveiling the vehicle, Musk claimed a list of insanely impressive specs for the new Roadster, including 0-60 mph in 1.9 sec, 620-mile of range, and more.

Musk has been teasing those specs as the “base specs” and other versions could be even crazier.

Later, he even said that Tesla will offer a ‘SpaceX package’ that will include cold air thrusters.

At first, the CEO said that these thrusters, which basically amount to small rocket engines, will “dramatically improve acceleration, top speed, braking and cornering”, but he also said that it would “maybe even allow a Tesla to fly.”

He talked about the Tesla Roadster even being able to hover over the ground.

It’s still unclear what those thrusters are going to look like on a car, but now Musk says that they will be subtle and the rear thruster is even going to be hidden behind the license plate:

Originally Posted by red-beard

Is that from the Onion?

Hey now, don't dog this until you've seen the principle at work.



He's a genius, i tellz ya!

[Cajundaddy]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

Tesla’s new Roadster is going to come with an optional ‘SpaceX package’ that will include cold air thrusters to improve performance.

Now CEO Elon Musk says that the thruster will be hidden behind the license plate.

When first unveiling the vehicle, Musk claimed a list of insanely impressive specs for the new Roadster, including 0-60 mph in 1.9 sec, 620-mile of range, and more.

Musk has been teasing those specs as the “base specs” and other versions could be even crazier.

Later, he even said that Tesla will offer a ‘SpaceX package’ that will include cold air thrusters.

At first, the CEO said that these thrusters, which basically amount to small rocket engines, will “dramatically improve acceleration, top speed, braking and cornering”, but he also said that it would “maybe even allow a Tesla to fly.”

He talked about the Tesla Roadster even being able to hover over the ground.

It’s still unclear what those thrusters are going to look like on a car, but now Musk says that they will be subtle and the rear thruster is even going to be hidden behind the license plate:

It will be interesting to see Tesla demo this technology. If you have ever watched a night F9 launch you know that they have been testing and gathering data on nitrogen thrust every launch and it's pretty well developed. They can land a booster on a rolling pitching deck at sea with very little effort. With enough microprocessor control it could be applied to cars pretty easily. Imagine a controlled 5G emergency stop with nitrogen thrust.

[island911]

Appropriateness.

[island911]

Fast acting cold thrusters used on a spacecraft for fine adjustments to the craft attitude - appropriate.

Fast acting cold thrusters used on a car for go-fast ? - inappropriate.

[biosurfer1]

Originally Posted by Cajundaddy

They can land a booster on a rolling pitching deck at sea with very little effort.

That's a stretch

[island911]

Nice compilation.

That's a lot more failure than I would expect from such an arrogant group.

BTW, Blue Origin (Bezo's rocket program) had a successful thrust controlled landing long before Space-X.

And, of course, NASA had a thrust controlled landing ---ON THE MOON-- 50 years ago, from this coming Saturday.

[island911]

Originally Posted by Cajundaddy

..Imagine a controlled 5G emergency stop with nitrogen thrust.

5G!? hmmm...

Let's do some quicky math on that. Simple momentum. Forget about acceleration (G) for now. Just how fast would you need to throw countering mass...

Mass₁x Velocity₁ = Mass₂x Velocity₂

Mass₁ = Big battery laden car. 5000_lb
Velocity₁ = 50 mph

Mass₂ = ??? just how much N₂ is on board? maybe 200 lbs? ... a ton? Let's say we have 200_lbs to throw forward to counter/stop the car momentum.
Velocity₂ = ??? just how fast is the exit speed? Sub-sonic? Super-sonic?

5000_lb x 50_mph = 200_lb x Velocity₂

250,000 / 200 = Velocity₂

1250 mph = Velocity₂ --yeah, super-sonic. :-/ And that's not even trying for 5G

Now, I know that there are inefficiencies in actual cold jets, and also that the car can get one G off with braking the wheels...

But let's just imagine that 5G emergency stop with nitrogen thrust. In essence, you are talking about throwing forward a couple hundred lbs of N₂ so fast that it decelerates the massive Tesla at 5G. ...or call it 4G. Still, think of the Jet-wash for whatever bicyclist crossing your path. --well so much for that idea.

So then not straight out the front. Instead we can imagine the jet thrust to push the car to the ground with 4G and use physical braking. Those are going to be some complex force brakes and some fast-acting suspension (do-able)... and some ridiculously expensive - if not impossible- cold jet system. I mean, the scale to achieve forces that high.

meh, all of this is a pattern of capturing imagination so that Musk can capture more money. Don't get me wrong. Putting rocket motors on electric cars... it's great that engineers are employed. Just that IMO there are better things to do. OTOH, I do like this conspicuous consumption that a "Green" car is slurping down by the bucket full. There's something validating there, for my early views of Musk and Tesla.

[red-beard]

While I agree that this is crazy, most rocket engines/nozzles are supersonic. The PR just needs to be above 1.4, which most likely it will.

Originally Posted by island911

5G!? hmmm...

Let's do some quicky math on that. Simple momentum. Forget about acceleration (G) for now. Just how fast would you need to throw countering mass...

Mass₁x Velocity₁ = Mass₂x Velocity₂

Mass₁ = Big battery laden car. 5000_lb
Velocity₁ = 50 mph

Mass₂ = ??? just how much N₂ is on board? maybe 200 lbs? ... a ton? Let's say we have 200_lbs to throw forward to counter/stop the car momentum.
Velocity₂ = ??? just how fast is the exit speed? Sub-sonic? Super-sonic?

5000_lb x 50_mph = 200_lb x Velocity₂

250,000 / 200 = Velocity₂

1250 mph = Velocity₂ --yeah, super-sonic. :-/ And that's not even trying for 5G

Now, I know that there are inefficiencies in actual cold jets, and also that the car can get one G off with braking the wheels...

But let's just imagine that 5G emergency stop with nitrogen thrust. In essence, you are talking about throwing forward a couple hundred lbs of N₂ so fast that it decelerates the massive Tesla at 5G. ...or call it 4G. Still, think of the Jet-wash for whatever bicyclist crossing your path. --well so much for that idea.

So then not straight out the front. Instead we can imagine the jet thrust to push the car to the ground with 4G and use physical braking. Those are going to be some complex force brakes and some fast-acting suspension (do-able)... and some ridiculously expensive - if not impossible- cold jet system. I mean, the scale to achieve forces that high.

meh, all of this is a pattern of capturing imagination so that Musk can capture more money. Don't get me wrong. Putting rocket motors on electric cars... it's great that engineers are employed. Just that IMO there are better things to do. OTOH, I do like this conspicuous consumption that a "Green" car is slurping down by the bucket full. There's something validating there, for my early views of Musk and Tesla.