Tesla: The Great Short

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Yeah, yeah, that is great and all, but when does he finish the Monorail in Springfield?

When Shelbyville is finished.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by McLovin

Say what you want about Musk, but he is a visionary and revolutionary, who is moving many things forward like very few humans have ever done.

This is one of the things that bothers me about Musk's detractors. They judge him based on their very low standards. They can't even begin to understand what it's like to be Elon Musk.

[legion]

Jim Jones was a visionary too. The problem was the vision.

Musk's vision is to build shoddy products using piles of cash supplied by US taxpayers while personally enriching himself. He has built an army of cult-like followers who not just overlook the glaring flaws (and fundamental unfairness) of this plan, but lash out and attack anyone who dares to point them out. Just because you've fallen for the hype from a sociopath doesn't mean he isn't going to make you drink the Kool-Aid later.

I dislike Musk because I have been forced to supply the capital he uses to make his shoddy products to enrich himself. I honestly wouldn't care about him if he wasn't a rent-seeking bastard.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by legion

Jim Jones was a visionary too. The problem was the vision.

Musk's vision is to build shoddy products using piles of cash supplied by US taxpayers while personally enriching himself. He has built an army of cult-like followers who not just overlook the glaring flaws (and fundamental unfairness) of this plan, but lash out and attack anyone who dares to point them out. Just because you've fallen for the hype from a sociopath doesn't mean he isn't going to make you drink the Kool-Aid later.

I dislike Musk because I have been forced to supply the capital he uses to make his shoddy products to enrich himself. I honestly wouldn't care about him if he wasn't a rent-seeking bastard.

I dislike him because his vaporware products affect my business.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

This is one of the things that bothers me about Musk's detractors. They judge him based on their very low standards. They can't even begin to understand what it's like to be Elon Musk.

This is one of the things that bother me about his fans. They refuse to try and understand what his detractors have to say.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Tobra

This is one of the things that bother me about his fans. They refuse to try and understand what his detractors have to say.

try to. not try and.

Musk is simply a brilliant mind who takes advantage of Corporate Socialism. What do they say, hate the sin, not the sinner?

I'm a fan because I believe in the possibility of a meritocracy. That and the status quo annoys me.

[McLovin]

I understand the perspectives of his detractors and his fans, because I’ve been both.

I was mostly a detractor, for a lot of reasons. First, I’m a hard core internal combustion guy. Typical gas in the veins type, I’ve rebuilt engines, done all maintenance etc. on all my cars for almost 50 years etc. Even an automatic transmission is too new school for me - I’ve to this day never owned one (except for my wife’s car).

I always viewed electric as just a remote emission vehicle, not a zero emission. And as a heartless appliance or glorified golf cart.

But whether gas or electric is technically the best for the future is essentially moot at this point. Right or wrong, the governments of the world have chosen electric, and we are irrevocably down that path. Infrastructures are built and will continue, in the next 5 years every manufacturer is going to explode with electric cars. It’s starting by the end of this year. That’s just the reality.

In that context, Musk has been a genius. He’s simply blown away all the brains at every automotive manufacturer on the planet.

I also believed from the Internet that his products were “shoddy.” Now having driven thousands of miles in Teslas (my family members own them, they are fairly elderly so when we’re together I drive, which is often), I disagree.

Their cars have been flawless. My family loves everything about them (and keep in mind we’re not talking millennials here, we’re talking 70+ year olds).

And, as much as a detractors as I’ve been, and as much as it kills the car guy in me, I agree.

They are not shoddy at all. The opposite. They are very well made. But the biggest thing is the design. The way the controls work, the single screen, it all becomes so easy and intuitive that, well, even a 75 year old figures it out.

After living with it for a while, you realize how far ahead Musk is. Until you’ve actually experienced it, you simply can’t understand, IMO (I didn’t).

You see the offerings from everyone else, including Porsche, and you you shake your head at how far behind they are. Pitiful range. Slower. Heavier. Old looking interiors that cling to internal combustion style.

To net it out, all in all I don’t think there’s been as big of a revolutionary person in automobile history since Henry Ford, almost exactly 100 years ago. I don’t believe there has been as important or influential car made since the Model T jolted us out of the horse era. I believe history will bear that out.

I’m sure Ford was a controversial figure in his time, too. I don’t know is any revolutionary isn’t.

As far as corporate welfare, sure, it was there. But he’s not the only company that receives it. And he didn’t steal it - it’s a part of our political process which he didn’t put in place and is not responsible for. He has, IMO, made good use of it.

[McLovin]

And as far as Musk personally, that doesn’t even count all of his other accomplishments, which are really incredible. What the guy has done in his life doesn’t even seem possible for one human. Esp. when you consider how young he is (he was born in the 70’s!)

You read his resume, and even his detractors would have to concede there have been very few people in human history who have accomplished what he has.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk

[legion]

I think it's worth pointing out that Nikola Tesla died penniless and believed he could talk to pigeons. Genius has it's limits and the followers don't always realize when it has veered into insanity.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by legion

I think it's worth pointing out that Nikola Tesla died penniless and believed he could talk to pigeons. Genius has it's limits and the followers don't always realize when it has veered into insanity.

Ok I'll concede that one, but in the end it worked out great for Howard Hughes.

[sc_rufctr]

Elon's mother, Maye Musk.

[Tobra]

Okay Shaun, you refuse to try to understand the point of view of his detractor.


I guess the trying to be tiresome comes naturally.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Okay Shaun, you refuse to try to understand the point of view of his detractor.


I guess the trying to be tiresome comes naturally.

Don't judge what you can't understood, it's that simple.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by legion

I dislike Musk because I have been forced to supply the capital he uses to make his shoddy products to enrich himself. I honestly wouldn't care about him if he wasn't a rent-seeking bastard.

Ok, how much in additional taxes did you have to pay over the last 10 years or so because of govt. subsidies for electric cars? Did they change the tax rate on you for Elon Musk or did you pay exactly the same as you would have if he didn't exist but the govt. took one drop of water from the ocean of $$ they have collected and gave it to Tesla?

They spend more screwing the fuse into a bomb or creating an aircraft that is 100% waste, (other than the $$ that enriches the military contractors). That doesn't bother you one bit because it's not the $$, it's your weird POV. End of story.

[Jim Richards]

I’m not keen to pay for Ag subsidies.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

I’m not keen to pay for Ag subsidies.

Me neither and those are really significant but the tax rate is the tax rate. The amount you or I pay doesn't change w various govt. subsidies coming on or off-line. People who complain about Tesla's subsidies sound like morons to me and that is besides the fact of public vs. private costs of polluting industries.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

I’m not keen to pay for Ag subsidies.

Never figured you for K Street vampire lobbyist Jim. Cheap silver keeps us all safe.

[Sooner or later]

I don't have a problem with subsidies to grow an industry. Though there are a couple of tweeks that I would have liked.

If we really want to grow the industry we must have a nationwide network of charging stations. Allowing Tesla to use tax money to build a network that can only charge a Tesla was a mistake. Any brand should be able to use a Tesla charger. Tesla should be allowed to charge a reasonable surcharge for non Tesla vehicles.

Also, tax credits should have been capped. A person that can afford an $80,000 vehicle doesn't need a tax credit. A 50k cap would have been acceptable to me.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

Elon's mother, Maye Musk.

No "love" for Elon's mum? For her years she looks amazing! (71)

I thought you guys would have been all over this... You must be slipping!

[Sooner or later]

I wasn't going to say anything.....but since you mention it....the hair