Decline of Motorcycling

[ramonesfreak]

Originally Posted by Jrboulder

1955-1965: 237 car accidents per 100,000 population
2005-2015: 129 car accidents per 100,000 population

You dont have to be a genius to see that driving has gotten much more dangerous with cell phones. Not a day goes buy that someone doesn’t almost run me off the road because they are looking down at their phone or gps touch screen. “Back in my day” the biggest distraction was flipping through my CD case or dropping a cigarette on the floor

Nowadays people are looking at Facebook, texts, tweets, Instagram, YouTube even watching damn movies on their phone

[ZAMIRZ]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I taught these classes up here many years ago. Yours is a false perception. The full classes and difficulty getting into them is a function of the lack of instructors, not a function of increasing ridership. Most areas just cannot find enough people to teach these classes. It's a big commitment, with the only real "pay" being the satisfaction of having helped out. That runs out pretty quickly for a lot of people.

They are excellent though.

I had to sign up about a month in advance and the instruction is top notch. I highly recommend it

[LakeCleElum]

Originally Posted by ramonesfreak

Nowadays people are looking at Facebook, texts, tweets, Instagram, YouTube even watching damn movies on their phone

Agree - Proven fact that distracted driving is more dangerous than DUI. I'm not sure why the enforcement and penalties aren't ramped up to be on Par? Love to see some chick on her phone getting her car towed and booked into jail.

Jeff and Vash: Right about lack of instructors. I did this also along time ago. Most classes on the weekends, so not many instructors want to give up all their weekends.

The reason for the 250cc bikes: They are usually donated by the dealers. Ideal size to learn on and cheaper also...

[JavaBrewer]

Originally Posted by speeder

It seems like we've had this conversation a few times before here but the bottom line is that everyone has to follow their own comfort level in terms of riding motorcycles and every other risky activity in life.

I've had a MC endorsement since 1975 and have ridden countless hours and miles in Los Angeles, Minneapolis and highways all over the country. I personally don't find it any different than it's ever been--you've always had to watch your ass on a bike. I think that it would be unsafe to have only a bike for transportation because of the principle of only riding when you feel like it, not because you have to. There are times I really don't feel like riding, rather take the car and listen to music w A/C or heat blowing, etc...

I woud feel unsafe riding somewhere other than CA. because of lane-splitting or filtering here...if I had to sit in lines of cars waiting for some distracted driver to rear-end me, I would feel unsafe and vulnerable. The ability to ride between and go around the 4-wheeled traffic adds another dimension to street riding and it's a lot safer, especially on the freeway but everywhere. Riding a MC in big city traffic requires skill and absolute attention at all times but I enjoy it and slice through traffic like a hot knife through butter and it's all legal.

Ironically, I don't ride in the dirt because while I consider it massive fun, I know 100% that I'd crash and break a bone or three, maybe my neck. I can't ride like an old lady in dirt, it's too much fun to hoon and I don't have the chops to back it up plus I'm fairly old.

Pretty much 100% above. I don't have a MC at the moment but have countless miles on 2 wheels (moto and bicycle). IMO riding off-road is far more dangerous than the street for older guys (me). At my age just about any 2 wheel crash is going to cause major damage. That's why I stopped riding mountain bikes all together.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by LakeCleElum

Agree - Proven fact that distracted driving is more dangerous than DUI. I'm not sure why the enforcement and penalties aren't ramped up to be on Par? Love to see some chick on her phone getting her car towed and booked into jail.

Amen. One of my very worst pet peeves. Unfortunately, that has kind of come out on this very forum a time or two, as I've made an ass of myself on more than one occasion with my over the top expression of such. So, trying not to beat this dead horse once again, just one quick observation.

Washington has passed "tough on distracted driving" legislation. I think most Washington drivers, particularly motorcyclists, would agree it has had absolutely no affect. I think because it is not tough enough. It needs to be treated just like a DUI. Arrested, car impounded, and perhaps most importantly as a deterrent value - the device gets confiscated and held for evidence until the trial date. If found guilty, it is not returned. Do we give the bottle back to the drunk? Do we give the gun back to they guy that robbed the liquor store when he gets out? Hammer these people and hammer them hard. The prospect of merely being fined has done nothing to curb this behavior.

Originally Posted by LakeCleElum

Jeff and Vash: Right about lack of instructors. I did this also along time ago. Most classes on the weekends, so not many instructors want to give up all their weekends.

Yeah... once you are in, due to the lack of instructors, you find yourself continually being asked to take more classes in addition to the ones you have scheduled. It's a tough deal. I felt I should "give back", so I took my turn in the barrel, but there just are not enough who are willing to do so.

Originally Posted by LakeCleElum

The reason for the 250cc bikes: They are usually donated by the dealers. Ideal size to learn on and cheaper also...

A lot easier for students to push in their first day or two of the class as well.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Amen. One of my very worst pet peeves. Unfortunately, that has kind of come out on this very forum a time or two, as I've made an ass of myself on more than one occasion with my over the top expression of such. So, trying not to beat this dead horse once again, just one quick observation.

Washington has passed "tough on distracted driving" legislation. I think most Washington drivers, particularly motorcyclists, would agree it has had absolutely no affect. I think because it is not tough enough. It needs to be treated just like a DUI. Arrested, car impounded, and perhaps most importantly as a deterrent value - the device gets confiscated and held for evidence until the trial date. If found guilty, it is not returned. Do we give the bottle back to the drunk? Do we give the gun back to they guy that robbed the liquor store when he gets out? Hammer these people and hammer them hard. The prospect of merely being fined has done nothing to curb this behavior.



Yeah... once you are in, due to the lack of instructors, you find yourself continually being asked to take more classes in addition to the ones you have scheduled. It's a tough deal. I felt I should "give back", so I took my turn in the barrel, but there just are not enough who are willing to do so.



A lot easier for students to push in their first day or two of the class as well.

I have to agree 100%. The fines are just not going to change behavior. On a CONSTANT basis I am behind some idiot at a light and the light turns green and they sit there screwing with their phone, and not driving. I watch drivers that just can't keep their vehicle in their own lanes because they are looking down at the phone and not the road. We need to get medieval on their asses.

[Chocaholic]

The riders that are most worrisome are the 50+ year olds that go out and buy their first motorcycle. Usually one that is way too big (and expensive) for a new rider.. Inexperience combined with bravado and money is a dangerous combo. Have seen it too many times. A key reason why I stopped riding in groups 30+ years ago.

The key to survival is common sense. Rule 1: Avoid traffic. Rule 2: Ride your own ride. Rule 3: Wear your gear. Rule 4: Avoid new riders. Rule 5: Relax, enjoy the ride and use common sense.

Not necessarily in that order.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Chocaholic

The riders that are most worrisome are the 50+ year olds that go out and buy their first motorcycle. Usually one that is way too big (and expensive) for a new rider.. Inexperience combined with bravado and money is a dangerous combo. Have seen it too many times. A key reason why I stopped riding in groups 30+ years ago.

The key to survival is common sense. Rule 1: Avoid traffic.

Boy, could I ever tell you some stories from my HOG chapter days. Some of them may even be true...

Those were the most frightening years of my motorcycling career. It was actually the impetus for me to try instructing, once I saw just how completely unequipped, both mentally and physically, so many of those folks were when it came to learning to ride their bikes. A lifelong dream for many of them, not realized until post mid-life crisis. Too damn proud and full of themselves to learn to ride on a more suitable machine, they go straight for the biggest, heaviest, baddest Harley in the showroom. And the self serving salesmen just feed off of them. Group rides with these people were both frustrating and terrifying at the same time. I had to quit after just a couple years with them. Never again.

[911boost]

The same goes for PCA drives Jeff.

I went on one after a very long hiatus from them and wanted to pull over and wring the neck of some jackass that was trying to stay two feet off my bumper in his brand new Cayman. It was supposed to be leisurely, and he is very lucky he pulled off and drove away midway through the drive.

I do not enjoy riding in a large group on my motorcycle for the reasons above. Even in a small group of close friends im typically at the front.

[911 Rod]

Older inexperienced riders scare me.
The x father in law bought himself a bike when he retired from the corporate world. He had never ridden one and always scared me when he was driving a boat or car.
During the riding course he fell off the supplied bike and hit his head. Took months before he could walk, talk or wipe his ass. He sold the bike without ever driving it. Lucky for us.

[oldE]

These are the groups we tend to see around here in the summer. Six to a dozen or more sometime riders who can barely keep the speed limit on the straights and have no confidence in the corners. Plus they bunch up so badly you cannot overtake.
There are times when I fantasize about driving through the lot with a snowplow.

Best
Les

[vash]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I taught these classes up here many years ago. Yours is a false perception. The full classes and difficulty getting into them is a function of the lack of instructors, not a function of increasing ridership. Most areas just cannot find enough people to teach these classes. It's a big commitment, with the only real "pay" being the satisfaction of having helped out. That runs out pretty quickly for a lot of people.

hmmm. i guess the instructor here i asked in CA could have been lying to me about the high student numbers.

your information about another State completely seems more plausible. i stand corrected.

[gtc]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I taught these classes up here many years ago. Yours is a false perception. The full classes and difficulty getting into them is a function of the lack of instructors, not a function of increasing ridership. Most areas just cannot find enough people to teach these classes. It's a big commitment, with the only real "pay" being the satisfaction of having helped out. That runs out pretty quickly for a lot of people.

Jeff,
I have a friend who took the class a year or two ago (down at Sand Point as I recall). There are apparently some subsidized spots in every course that fill up months in advance, but there is little to no wait if you pay the normal course fee.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by vash

hmmm. i guess the instructor here i asked in CA could have been lying to me about the high student numbers.

your information about another State completely seems more plausible. i stand corrected.

Everything is relative. "High student numbers" is likely in relation to available instructors.

Originally Posted by gtc

Jeff,
I have a friend who took the class a year or two ago (down at Sand Point as I recall). There are apparently some subsidized spots in every course that fill up months in advance, but there is little to no wait if you pay the normal course fee.

That's good news. Although I started riding on the street at the age of 16, way waaaay back in 1976, I never actually took the class until about 2000 or so. I only did so because it became a requirement to lead the group rides in the HOG chapter. It was a good three or four month wait when I tried to get in. A couple of years later, when I was teaching it, the students complained about the wait, which was still about the same. It's good to hear that it sounds like they have found a way to speed things up a bit.

There is no escaping the fact, however, that ridership is down. The industry is really hurting because of it. Sales are way, way down, in spite of our economic prosperity and increased disposable incomes. Lots of talk about how to get new folks interested in the sport. There is a lot of concern.

[trader220]

The prices on new bikes is part of the problem too. If you're looking at new bikes, why not save 40 or 50% and buy a 2 year old one? Especially on something like a Harley where the technology hasn't really changed in a meaningful way and the styling hasn't either. $20 grand for a new bike vs. $12k for a 2 year old one with a few thousand miles and probably some bolt on extras. Sport bikes are only slightly different in that the technology has changed significantly over the last few years. Of course that means prices for the older ones are even cheaper. If you're looking at top of the line Liter sport bikes, how many people can really tax the bikes abilities especially on the road?

[vash]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Everything is relative. "High student numbers" is likely in relation to available instructors.

.

i already said I believe you. You have the pulse of Cali ridership down pat.

[motion]

I'm up to 42 now

[pavulon]

and....just like that, motion is back!

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by vash

i already said I believe you. You have the pulse of Cali ridership down pat.

I don't believe you...

[Oracle]

Me too, I gave up on street driving.. Way too many people distracted.

I sold the street bike and got a Dual Sport.. and I am very happy.
It's so much safer riding on those empty dirt roads and I have to say I enjoy that much more!

By the way, don't drink the Koolaid of BMW, KLR, etc.. a good classic Jap will give you the same fun for a fraction of the price. But as they say: your money your choice

Its not about speed, its the feeling of control and handling.