1200 miles in a new Tesla

[Racerbvd]

The solar farms are definitely growing in Florida, one of my BMX buddies is a master electrician for a major outfit, and has been traveling around the state, setting up the farms

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by island911

polutants ? oye. Do you really believe that CO2 is a pollutant?

Get off your soap box. Your rants are getting more and more desperate.
You and I both know more comes out of tailpipes and smokestacks than Co2. Your desperation to disparage all things electric is sad and pathetic. You make yourself look stupid.

[Jims5543]

Here is the rub. Show me a IC vehicle getting 90 mpg and I will be all over it

Until then, my i3 does exactly what I need it to do in this point of my life.

Once my kid is done with school (25 Miles away) we no longer need it.

Right now I am lusting for a 6 speed manual 135i M package and want to tune it up to 400 hp.

I am by no reach a tree hugger, just do not see the sense of putting 100 miles a day in traffic in a fun car. It is a waste.



Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Jims5543

Until then, my i3 does exactly what I need it to do in this point of my life.

As does my Volt. And all the people telling me I shouldn't enjoy it because of their political positions on energy can suck it.
I like my Volt.
I like all my Porsches.
I like my old Dodge truck.
I like my new Toyota truck.
Hell, I like my lawnmower.
Island, environmentalists, and anyone else who thinks they should tell me what I like to drive can go to hell.

[Sooner or later]

Jim, you have been great. There is so much misinformation or misunderstanding out I just want people to know the actual facts. When we read about renewable energy being cheaper than coal production those folks are misleading us. Yes, modern wind energy is cheaper than 40 year old coal facilities. They are not cheaper than modern gas turbine production.

For some folks electrics make sense. For others they don't. Even with heavy tax credits and many years of development (Tesla shipped it's first car 11 years ago) most electrics are still fighting for their lives.

To transform the energy and auto sectors it is going to take many decades and many tens of trillion of dollars. And your local electrical grid will need upgrades when everyone in town is trying to charge their electric at home. The current grid can handle about 25% home charging. It ain't gonna be cheap and we are going to pay for it.

To force the transition into a faster pace we impose high taxes on non green energy. Cali is adding another 6 cents (thereabouts ) to it's gas tax this coming Monday. Their fuel tax will be right at 75 cents a a gallon once you consider the local, state, federal, underground storage, and the sales tax that taxes those previous taxes.

Who's that going to hurt? The poor bastard that can't afford to rent a home near his work and has to commute to his middle class or entry level job. The poor bastard that can't afford a new car much less pay the premium for an electric vehicle or 2 grand for installation of home charger. The poor bastard we claim we care about while we throw him under the electric bus.

I don't drive high end cars. Don't need to. Don't care. I buy used with 20,000 miles and drive em till the wheels fall off. I am the last guy to pay a heavy premium for an electric with a tax credit from an overspending government. My SC set me back 17k 15 years ago.

Don't believe everything you read. Don't believe what I have just written. Do your own research. Educate yourselves and be prepared to open your wallets wide.

[island911]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Get off your soap box. Your rants are getting more and more desperate.
You and I both know more comes out of tailpipes and smokestacks than Co2. Your desperation to disparage all things electric is sad and pathetic. You make yourself look stupid.

Look who's on a soap box ranting now. sheesh.

I never said anything about smokestacks. I'm talking modern gasoline powered cars.

Modern cars with direct injection are very impressive. The products of combustion, far and wide, are water and CO2. Neither are pollutants. Well, for political reasons some mandated that CO2 was a pollutant, but was so crazy a position it needed to be reversed. --The basic building block of all life is not a pollutant. (again, with the exception of those who need it to be for political posturing and for scaring poorly informed people.)

[island911]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

... Your desperation to disparage all things electric is sad and pathetic. You make yourself look stupid.

You are clueless.

back in the early 90's I was finishing up my Mech Engineering degree. I was big into automotive so I got in on a Hybrid Electric car project. At the time, the regenerative motor we had was super cool. And, I saw the energy on the table that regen brings. Great stuff. But here's the thing, learning about the metrics of various tech gives a real understanding of the trade-offs of the various tech.

What I've seen since has been massive hype... extracting hundreds of billions to build a resource intensive technology. -not just EV's but in wind power, PV farms...

Electric vehicles are nothing new. See Porsche and Edison in the early 1900's. Windmills are nothing new. PV - best things ever for satellites and even space stations burned up long ago. . It's great that we live in a time that we can be so sloppy with our resources. All of those techs brought to us by old fashion reliable energy supplies.

So here we are throwing massive resources and scale to fundamentally expensive solutions. I keep saying, electric cars will rock once we develop better capacitance solutions. Until then, they are ridiculously resource intensive. Great toys for sure, as is. But not cheap.

The i3 - very cool carbon fiber body! Who does that? A buddy has one. I like it. but I also see a carbon-freaking-fiber body. How much does that cost, all in an effort to make the tech somewhat viable.... These things are MASSIVELY subsidized. not just in tax credits govt $ but by the manufacturers who want the fleet mileage credits.

My only message is to say be careful in believing that EV's pencil out when using actual cost per mile.

I don't hate electric motors. To say so is just crazy talk of a bitter old Patrick.

[island911]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

As does my Volt. And all the people telling me I shouldn't enjoy it because of their political positions on energy can suck it.
...

You should like it.

The Volt is a LOT of tech for the money you paid. Same for the i3, the Tesla, Prius...

All of the people with hybrids and electrics should enjoy the deal that they got.

Just understand, you are not the only one who paid for that. Everyone who bought a GM or Chevy truck help pay for that car. Everyone who pays Fed tax helped pay for that car.

you got a deal for sure.

Enjoy it.

[RNajarian]

Of course the one thing that hasn’t been addressed in this thread is . . .

THE GAS TAX.

You know the $0.60 per gallon we ICE drivers (in California) are required to pay for road infrastructure, etc . . .

It will be just a matter of time before our elected officials add an additional $200-$500 to the registration of pure electric vehicles to compensate for lost revenue.

As soon as the big boys (Mercedes-Porsche-BMW-VW etc) get in the electric vehicle game and the percentage of ICE on the road decreases, that fee is likely to increase.

JMHO

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by island911

You should like it.

The Volt is a LOT of tech for the money you paid. Same for the i3, the Tesla, Prius...

All of the people with hybrids and electrics should enjoy the deal that they got.

Just understand, you are not the only one who paid for that. Everyone who bought a GM or Chevy truck help pay for that car. Everyone who pays Fed tax helped pay for that car.

you got a deal for sure.

Enjoy it.

GM lost money on every Volt they sold. The early models lost em damn near 50 grand per car.

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by RNajarian

Of course the one thing that hasn’t been addressed in this thread is . . .

THE GAS TAX.

You know the $0.60 per gallon we ICE drivers (in California) are required to pay for road infrastructure, etc . . .

It will be just a matter of time before our elected officials add an additional $200-$500 to the registration of pure electric vehicles to compensate for lost revenue.

As soon as the big boys (Mercedes-Porsche-BMW-VW etc) get in the electric vehicle game and the percentage of ICE on the road decreases, that fee is likely to increase.

JMHO

I addressed it in my earlier rant. All gas taxes combined makes it closer to 75 cents according to the Sacramento Bee.

[island911]

Originally Posted by RNajarian

..
It will be just a matter of time before our elected officials add an additional $200-$500 to the registration of pure electric vehicles to compensate for lost revenue. ..

More.

In this State (WA) my friends i3 annual reg is over $900. A work-mate's Tesla is over $1,200

On top of that the State is taking about implementing a per-mile tax. ..for every car.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by RNajarian

It will be just a matter of time before our elected officials add an additional $200-$500 to the registration of pure electric vehicles to compensate for lost revenue.

It’s coming to a state near you. It’s already happening in Ohio. Next year it will cost me $100 extra dollars to register my Volt.

[RWebb]

gotta pay for the roads

[zedsdead]

I've owned a Tesla Model 3 (Dual Motor) since December. For me - it's a great car. The following article does a good job of summarizing my thoughts/experience with the car.

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2019/03/14/gearheads-enjoy-tesla-model-3

I've never viewed the IC vs Electric as mutually exclusive technologies.

The Model 3 and my GT3 share the same garage. I'm happy with both.

[Jims5543]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

Jim, you have been great. There is so much misinformation or misunderstanding out I just want people to know the actual facts. When we read about renewable energy being cheaper than coal production those folks are misleading us. Yes, modern wind energy is cheaper than 40 year old coal facilities. They are not cheaper than modern gas turbine production.

For some folks electrics make sense. For others they don't. Even with heavy tax credits and many years of development (Tesla shipped it's first car 11 years ago) most electrics are still fighting for their lives.

To transform the energy and auto sectors it is going to take many decades and many tens of trillion of dollars. And your local electrical grid will need upgrades when everyone in town is trying to charge their electric at home. The current grid can handle about 25% home charging. It ain't gonna be cheap and we are going to pay for it.

To force the transition into a faster pace we impose high taxes on non green energy. Cali is adding another 6 cents (thereabouts ) to it's gas tax this coming Monday. Their fuel tax will be right at 75 cents a a gallon once you consider the local, state, federal, underground storage, and the sales tax that taxes those previous taxes.

Who's that going to hurt? The poor bastard that can't afford to rent a home near his work and has to commute to his middle class or entry level job. The poor bastard that can't afford a new car much less pay the premium for an electric vehicle or 2 grand for installation of home charger. The poor bastard we claim we care about while we throw him under the electric bus.

I don't drive high end cars. Don't need to. Don't care. I buy used with 20,000 miles and drive em till the wheels fall off. I am the last guy to pay a heavy premium for an electric with a tax credit from an overspending government. My SC set me back 17k 15 years ago.

Don't believe everything you read. Don't believe what I have just written. Do your own research. Educate yourselves and be prepared to open your wallets wide.

Here, I will make your head explode.

! town south in the down town area, there is a new covered parking area that is covered by solar panels. At one end of it are 8 spaces reserved for EV's with free charging ports. 4 are for Tesla's the other 2 are for the rest of the EV world. It bothers me that Tesla will not play well with others in this regard their charging ports are proprietary and that sucks, there should be a common plug they all use that is future proof.

We use it at least once a week, typically on Sunday, we will not plug in the car Friday night or Saturday then head downtown to the green market and free concerts on the river. Typically we are there 2+ hours, enough to take our EV from 20% to 100% for free while there.

During the week, my wife will run errands downtown and charge up for free too.

Total cost of a full charge? Less than $3 so we can go 90 miles in the i3.






For the record, nothing puts a smile on my face more than the E30 at WOT winding though the gears or racing down some mountain roads.

We typically take it on road trips and love it, it gets 30MPG on the open road and is just a fun car to drive in. I would love to get a 135i or 235i M package to take over those duties. As soon as I sell off the E21 that may happen. I am at a crossroads with the E21, I am contemplating having it sanded down and repainted properly and replacing the dash then putting it up for sale, it is a perfect time capsule outside those 2 items. The sale of that should come close to funding a newer car.

My E30 still makes me more moist than than the i3 which is an appliance, that is admittedly really fun to toss around.

[Jims5543]

Originally Posted by RWebb

gotta pay for the roads

Sad it has come to the point that our income tax does not pay for it.

Government needs to reel itself in and become fiscally responsible.. I actually typed that without laughing.

[island911]

Looking at only the carbon from energy sources... (grid vs on-board IC)



Per Scientific American and Carnegie Mellon University

That's just for running. Does not account for production of the $40-60k battery packs.

The take away should be that full plug-ins are not always 'cleaner' than an IC hybrid. ...and that location makes a difference. ...and that Toyota makes cleaner cars than Mazda. --As I've said before, Toyota has one very efficient ICE.
And... Mercedes has an engine that is 20% more efficient than the Toyota engine.
IC engines are improving at a rate much faster than batteries. --bettcha you didn't see that coming. But then, who would. Electric cars seem so... electronic. And seeing the advancement pace of computer electronics over the last 3 decades it's easy to expect that batteries would follow Moore's law too. Well, unless you were previously educated in those sorts of tech.

[MMARSH]

Originally Posted by zedsdead

I've owned a Tesla Model 3 (Dual Motor) since December. For me - it's a great car. The following article does a good job of summarizing my thoughts/experience with the car.

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2019/03/14/gearheads-enjoy-tesla-model-3

I've never viewed the IC vs Electric as mutually exclusive technologies.

The Model 3 and my GT3 share the same garage. I'm happy with both.

Good article. I agree with everthing except his opinion about the Model S. I drove the Model 3 for several days and liked it alot, but i thought my Model S rode better, was quieter, and more comfortable....the Model 3 definitely addresses some of the Model S shortcomings though.

I didnt buy a electric car because i was trying to be green or to save money on fuel. I bought it because I personally think the Model S is a good looking car. After i test drove one, i was blown away and really liked how it drove. That instant torque is just to much fun and on my daily 80 mile commute i use it often. There really is no ICE that has that instant thrust at the tip of your foot all the time feeling. Its pretty addictive and i really enjoy it. I love driving, but I LOVE auto pilot. On the rare occasion i get stuck in stop and go freeway traffic, Slogging along at 15 to 20 mph in bumper to bumper traffic isnt "driving" anyway. I'll just let the car handle it.

Like most on this board, I've had alot of cars over the years. Corvettes, Mustang 5.0 and GT350s, Mini Coopers, Challengers, BMWs, Porsches and many others. I don't think ive ever owned a car that i havent modified in some way or another. Yeck, i started buying parts to start ruining the tesla before i even brought it home. What can i say I'm a car guy. Right now it works for me. I know for a fact, in two years when i retire, it wont work for me and ill sell it. In the meantime, I'm just enjoying the ride.....

[group911@aol.co]

Originally Posted by island911

More.

In this State (WA) my friends i3 annual reg is over $900. A work-mate's Tesla is over $1,200

On top of that the State is taking about implementing a per-mile tax. ..for every car.

Just out of curiosity, how do you propose that you pay for roads without money?
I don't suppose you have ever complained about the shape of roads or congestion?