Nautical DUI Emphasis Patrol
 

This article in our local news kind of caught my eye and got me to thinking (I know, I know - never a good thing...):

https://komonews.com/news/local/police-targeting-dui-boaters-this-weekend-in-operation-dry-water

Not being a boat owner (other than my 18' canoe), I guess this has never crossed my mind. Just how would they "pull over" a boat? And under what pretext (probable cause)? With no speed limits on most waterways, with most ski boats and the like "weaving" as a normal mode of operation, just what do the authorities look for, and what justification can they use to initiate contact? Don't they need "permission to come aboard" or, if not given, an actual warrant to board another vessel? Can they demand someone leave their own vessel if not under arrest? I have all kinds of concerns about just how this would be carried out. Any insights?

Coast Guard can do "safely " inspection, check your life Preservers, ect.

True. I had not thought about that. Do they have absolute authority to board any vessel then? Or can you produce the life vests and fire extinguishers for inspection without allowing them on board?

BUI is a big deal here. I was toying with starting a company / service to can radio / call / text that will run a licensed sober boat operator to you and bring you back to your mooring or boat ramp.

Many go to sandbars here and spend the day drinking beer. Many get popped pulling into he boat ramp or between the sandbars and boatramps.

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A quick google search found some articles that said that the Coast Guard can enter your boat at any time for any reason if it is in US waters. The 4th amendment does not apply to boats.

Boating apparently falls under some ancient laws; Revenue Service act of 1790 was in the article.

All that and more. Don't drink and boat. The Coast Guard Auxiliary is very strong here in Maryland and aligned under the Department of HLS.

Have a designated driver or it will be a long day. They get to pick and choose, you don't.

We live on a DNR lake. They often pull people over to check for life jackets, DL, fire extinguishers, etc. Also if you go under an overpass too fast (wake). And of course, they’ll grab anyone obviously doing stupid shlt.

Thanks guys. I find this all very interesting. I just wonder how the authorities have continued to operate in this manner in this day and age. To my admittedly less than knowledgable self, this strikes me very much as the Constitutional and moral equivalent of being pulled over in your car any time the authorities damn well please, under the auspices of a "safety check".

I wonder how the two have grown so far apart. Seems to me that the greater "danger" lies in the operation of our land going vehicles, at least as far as the danger they present to others. Yet we enjoy the absolute right to travel unimpeded in those, with some sort of probable cause being required before we can be stopped. No stopping just to check. Interesting that that seems to be a given in the nautical world, and even more interesting that it appears to be accepted. Why the difference?

Here in the oppressive state of NY.. they associate any boating BUI infractions with your licence to drive an automobile... In NY you do not need a licence from the State to operate a boat. I think at minimum a "boating safety course" is recommended, but not required...

Get a BUI, expect the driving privileges for your car to be suspended..

I grew up on/in the water..My father had a bristol condition/equipped Crisovich... The boat was a sport fishing weapon... Tuna, Marlin, Shark..all teak deck, Stitt chair?

Once we came back from a overnight trip,and the coasties flagged us down... I remember them asking to board and my dad refused.. They then asked my dad a series of questions... how many life preservers, so my dad showed them.. fire extinguisher.. showed them... etc... down the list..I remember some of the crew on the the Coast Guard vessel giving each other side eye...

Just looking at my dads boat you could tell it was fitted out to the max...

40 years or so ago...


Doubt you could do that today..

WAAAAAAYYYY back in college, a friend had a boat. We were on the NC sound in the outer banks where the sound met the ocean.

This is a weird area of water- where small inland waves from the protected sound intermix with real ocean waves/ torrent. Our boat was no match, so we turned back towards the sound.

AS we got turned around, we got "pulled over" for a coast guard check. I will never forget the young female coast guard intern in her polyester dickie pants attempting to board. With one leg on our boat/the other leg on the patrol boat/the boats hitting/pulling apart in the surf, and she fell right in.

At that point, everyone needed to get her out of the water before the boats re-collided smushing her between them. I swear the coast guard captain reached into the water and raised her out with one hand. We all went to help. Let's just say, there "might" have been some alcohol on our boat, but it all got overlooked after that.

She was okay, we had our life vest, got a "warning" and everyone went on their merry way.

they just slide up next to you and grab hold of the gunnel or motor next to you if current requires. every experience we've had with them has been positive.

My thought is that when this Country was founded, ships and then railroads were desperately needed to build and supply everything, so therefore strict rules and rights were applied and they just sort of stayed that way. Cars are relatively new and were thought of differently.

This. Maryland DNR and CG Aux have NO sense of humor. For good reason. Its not uncommon for the helmsman of most pleasure boats to have cocktails at the helm, and its more dangerous than a drink in the console.

Thanks again, guys. This is one of the things I love about hanging with you folks - beyond the banter, we always have folks who know. What a resource.

To expand this just a wee bit further, here in Washington, we can get a DUI on a bicycle. On a lawnmower. I could probably get one in my canoe. I'm sure we have discussed this before, so all I will reiterate is just how absurd this has gotten.

Even in the context of this discussion, why on earth would we allow a BUI to have equivalency to a DUI, and therefor affect one's driver's license? I cannot believe this has not been challenged. Or let me rephrase that - I'm sure it has been challenged, but I cannot believe it's been allowed to stand. Next thing you know, we will be subject to a "PUI" if we are enjoying a beer while up on a ladder painting the house... And it will affect our driver's licenses...

Neighbor got a DUI for "Golf Carting under influence." This was in 1985.

Not a judgment call. Just a datapoint.

No DUI worries, but reminded me years ago when a water deputy checked out my boat in the parking lot...he with ticket book in hand. All was kosher with license, life preservers, etc. Then he started asking:'

"Coast guard approved fuel can?"

"No."

"Spark arrestor muffler?"

"Uh no, never saw the need to have either one."

He began writing...finally noticed the mast of my 15' Chrysler Mutineer, and blurted;
"Why..you don't have a motor!"

"Exactly."

They do this every single day to truckers. And the list of infractions they can get you on fit in multiple 3-ring binders. If they want to stick it to you they will find a way to do it. Pay your fine and you're off to the next state where they do it all over again. It's more for lining the coffers than 'safety' but I digress...

The police patrol the lakes in cottage country up here. They're looking for life vests and other safety equipment. If you're impaired and get charged you lose your drivers license on the spot for 90 days. If convicted the suspension is a year. This applies to ALL watercraft including canoes.
In the winter snowmobiles fall under the same rules.

It’s a pretty big deal around here on our inland lakes, especially the major ones. We have a minimum list of safety equipment required and they can legally inspect any boat for said safety equipment. Putting aside the concerns about the legality of said laws this very rarely happens, my only encounter with lake law enforcement is when I didn’t realize that a no wake zone was in effect on weekends only and was quickly pulled over as a warning. Most enforcement is by either park rangers or state troopers depending on the lake. In practice they frequently will be sitting in coves watching boaters with binoculars and will pull over boats where they can observed the driver either drinking blatantly or acting erratically. So in practice if you aren’t an idiot it will be ok.

Here in Florida we have many "no wake" zones as well as Manatees and Dolphins who could get hurt should a boater exceed the posted speed limits, so I'm glad there is law enforcement to help protect our natural resources.

There are also plenty of areas where boats can open things up if they wish to do so.

There's also no shortage of drunks who own boats here, thus the never ending opportunities for our maritime laws to be enforced.

And it's not just the Coast Guard. Its the Sheriff's Dept., Marine Patrol, FWC, plus FDNR.

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I was lit up once when the family was on Shasta Lake (Northern California). It was late afternoon/evening and the water was like glass. Kids were wake boarding. I was unaware that as soon as the sun set, no more skiing or tubing or boarding. They made sure I had the right amount of life jackets. Gave me a warning and let us go. I thanked them and apologized for my ignorance.

Jeff, I think operating a boat on a busy lake is far more dangerous than driving on the road. Stuff comes at you from 360 degrees and there is a huge speed potential difference between, say a ski boat or a 200hp jet ski and a kayak, paddle board, or rowing scull. And you know people, they're stupid...on both sides of the speed equation. As often as not, it's the paddle boards and kayaks in the middle of the lake that get stopped and I imagine the conversation goes something like this, "Get out of the middle the lake you dumb$%*#, don't you see the 20 surf and wakeboard boats out here trying not to kill you?"

When we sit on the deck on busy weekends and watch the police or sheriff boats roam around, we can pretty much tell who's in for a "fear of God check" and I have no problem with that. I've lived on the lake for 9 years and have never been stopped. I also never drink and boat.

My dad gets pulled over in the FL keys at least once a year. He’s glad they’re out there. All it takes to operate a boat is money, brains not required. People also ignore fishing laws that are critical to maintaining viable fishing stocks.

^^^^ Owning a bass boat that would haul azz fer 27 years sure messed up my fishin' on my own boat...seriously :).

A drunkin' sailor...

That makes sense when you explain it like that. On the road, at least we are all traveling in marked lanes in the same direction, and every direction from which another vehicle might appear is pretty darn obvious. Plus, everyone is going at more or less the same speed, by legal requirement. I had not considered the randomness and sheer variety of speed and direction of approaching and departing traffic on a busy lake.

On the Chesapeake you have full size ships and worse tugs pulling barges. They can t manuver for crap. Every year some dumbass get cut in half by the steel cable pulling the barge.

No kidding! Any obscure topic. Expert level knowledge, often in minutes.

All I'll say is barge, long tow cable, during an overnight race....

Out there all day, you're tired, its dark, what are those running lights?

I think most boats around do a decent job but the folks that dont care really make it tough. Rules of the road? No wake zones... as said earlier, getting on the water takes $$, not much else.

On the road I mostly worry about the speed of what’s coming up behind me...

Title 14 of the United States Code, Section 89-

The Coast Guard may make inquiries, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests upon the high seas and waters over which the United States has jurisdiction, for the prevention, detection, and suppression of violations of laws of the United States. For such purposes, commissioned, warrant, and petty officers may at any time go on board of any vessel subject to the jurisdiction, or to the operation of any law, of the United States, address inquiries to those on board, examine the ship’s documents and papers, and examine, inspect, and search the vessel and use all necessary force to compel compliance. When from such inquiries, examination, inspection, or search it appears that a breach of the laws of the United States rendering a person liable to arrest is being, or has been committed, by any person, such person shall be arrested or, if escaping to shore, shall be immediately pursued and arrested on shore, or other lawful and appropriate action shall be taken; or, if it shall appear that a breach of the laws of the United States has been committed so as to render such vessel, or the merchandise, or any part thereof, on board of, or brought into the United States by, such vessel, liable to forfeiture, or so as to render such vessel liable to a fine or penalty and if necessary to secure such fine or penalty, such vessel or such merchandise, or both, shall be seized.

This is where it begins...but there's a few other statutes and stuff that apply to Coasties. CG Aux has zero LE authority, they are just kind folks who are helping out. They can't enforce anything, same as the Navy can't enforce anything. All Navy drug busts have a CG detachment onboard or fast roped onboard to do the actual enforcement. This all came about I believe two years after the Constitution was ratified. Same guys who signed the Constitution invented the CG. The amazing thing to me is how rarely these powers are abused. Seriously, when I was active the only agency that had more authority was the Secret Service.-WW

Also, on a boat, there are no seatbelts or airbags.




I've been hit three times on three different sailboats over the years. All three times the mast snapped in half from the impact. It can really ruin your whole day. Not passing judgement but it IS an issue.




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3 times? :eek: Racing or just pleasure sailing?

I bought a specialized duck boat (tdb14) from a guy in Philly years ago. We tested it on the Delaware river where he normally hunted. I asked if it was a bit sketchy running on big water like that at 0 dark thirty to get to a creek.

I’ll never forget his response; he said you can’t see nav lights on the big ships since they are so damn high up. You know they are there when the stars disappear.

Jurisdiction gets funky too..any waters that border two states the CG has authority. Such as "Station Vacation" on Lake Tahoe, or on the Snake River in Oregon, Idaho, Washington. Pretty sure we send a detachment to Havasu during the peak boating months. Stateless vessels were basically pirates or smugglers faking they had a home country. Say a smuggler is flying a Columbia national flag off its stern, well we call the State Dept, they call the Nation in question, they instantly say they never heard of them...so poof "stateless" so we board them. Any US flagged boat we can do, or any boat in our waters which sometimes extend out to 300 nautical miles (EEZ).

Nobody who wasn't in the CG has any idea what we really do or did, and all the different hats we wear. From the Civil War, World Wars, Viet Nam to all the stuff going on the Gulf. We had guys in Afghanistan. Aids to Navigation, pollution, and my bread and butter Search and Rescue. Best job ever-WW

Jeff, I don't know the reason the law is that way, but I got warned by the guy who sold me my first boat not to EVER deny access to law enforcement.

We fish every year up at Ross Lake, which is in the North Cascades National Park. We rent 12-foot wooden boats with 15hp outboards, which are fun little hot rods. The Park Service doesn't board very often, but when they do there's no fooling around. They usually just say they want to spot check one thing--whether the hooks are barbed or baited (neither allowed), but they tie up and look everywhere and at everything. Ross runs 35 miles and up into Canada, so they are always on the lookout for drug runners and terrorists and the like. They made a big coke bust up there about 20 years ago when we first started going.

I generally have zero problem with law enforcement doing their jobs. It's how some of them choose to go about it that I have a problem with. The Park Rangers have all been pretty cool. And you can get into some pretty serious trouble out on that lake, so I am happy they are there.

What an idiot. I've been through the canal way past dark and its no fun. Seems like no room and even when they are at transit speed the ships leave a pretty nasty wake. So many opportunities for an incident, following the rules is pretty straight forward.

The canal is one of the spots of which I speak, a 35 ft sb got pulled under by a cable not far from Schaffers in the early 2000's.

I do get that it happens to normal sober folks, but add some drinks at the helm and disaster ensues. And I'm no saint, I like my liquor.

Jeff, I do understand your initial statement. But running a boat in crowded water or at night is more like flying than driving, so yeah, do you want the guy in the 150 in your pattern to be schitzfaced?

Thanks for your service Wetworks! I spent four years in Maine at a small boat station 89-93. I still have to explain to friends what exactly the CG does.

The snowbirds on their boats were always amusing in the summer but it was the drunk fishing captains that gave us the most trouble.

You too and thank you, enlisted in 89 (Yankee 131). Did some fisheries off Maine as a boot. Stayed a weekend in Rockland. Our D-9 Icebreaker did a summer patrol out of Boston. Spent my winters breaking ice in your current neck of the woods. Small world. I spent those four years more in the UP than I did in home port Cleveland. I quickly ran home to the West Coast as soon as I was tour complete. Stayed in Oregon the rest of my twenty, driving boats at Surf Stations. Semper Par-WW