Day Sailors?
 

Anyone here in the sailing hobby? I'm thinking to take up the hobby with the lady friend who has 40+ years sailing experience with her Dad. Ideally searching for a boat with a swing keel, 22-25 feet that is able to be hauled and launched with a trailer. I'm 6'4" and 275 pounds, so interior cabin room is going to be tight IF at all possible in a boat that size. Not really looking for a good racer, just a cruiser type. It's the one hobby that the lady friend can tell me what I'm doing wrong....and she'd probably be correct. :D

I spoke with a sailboat broker last week and gave him my concerns, and having been in the business he put it like this: "You can get a boat that is small enough to "trailer sail", and it will probably take you an hour and a half to rig it and launch it the first few times, then you'll cut that time down to half, then when you have a wonderful day on the boat and something goes wrong during the take down, it kind of ruins the day. At that point you'll be thinking how much easier it would be to rent a slip for a few months and only have to haul out and launch the boat once or twice a year. Now the trailer is going to take up space somewhere, and since you are paying for the slip, you wonder "why didn't I get a larger boat to begin with?".

I'll be looking at a 30 foot boat this afternoon, at a "I'm tired of dealing with 3 sailboats and I'm old" kind of price. Problem is it's a BIG boat in a 33,000 acre lake, a fixed keel, no trailer, it weighs 8000 pounds and there is only one contractor in the area that will lift this size boat out of the water at a cost of $1500. The slip rental is $200 a month. The boat has been for sale for quite a while with no takers. It's more of a coastal cruiser and I can't imagine what it would cost to get it to where there is a larger body of water (the gulf coast) and maybe the resale market would be better because of the location. Of course I'd have to rent a slip there and then drive a few hours to go sailing.

So, from those experienced in the sailing hobby, thoughts?

Is there a sailing club on the lake or another facility where you can store the boat on a trailer without taking the mast down?
200 a month for in the water storage sounds cheap, maybe a smaller boat than the 30 footer you store in the water. I think you will use it more.

There is a sailing club that I could probably join (Lady friend and her Dad 40+ years members) and leave a smaller boat mast up on a trailer. But this 30 footer, it's only coming out and going back in the water with a crane (at $1500 a trip) and there is no trailer in the deal.

^^^This. I wouldn't recommend the 30 footer. More expense and you'll need a fair amount of wind to get it moving. From my experience sailing on lakes in the Southeast, the winds are more typically light, and shifty. Experienced sailors are able to get/keep their boats moving in these conditions, but it might be more frustrating for a newbee to learn in these conditions.

We had a 22ft sailboat (J/22) that we raced throughout the Southeast, and we kept it on it's trailer with the mast & boom in place at a yacht club on Lake Lanier (GA). It was pretty fast/easy to get it into the water.

What's the lake like, depth-wise? Will a wing keel or even a fin keel boat allow you to sail most of the lake without worry of grounding?

As to your physical size and comfort on the boat, you have to decide how you are going to use the boat. Are you day sailing, or are you living aboard it from time to time, too? Most day sailors are out on the water for a few hours and wrap up and go home. If your girlfriend is into racing and gets you into it, too, then you'll probably only spend time sailing and interior accommodations can be quite spartan (to save weight and go faster!). In the day sailing and racing cases, you only need a cabin to store what's needed for the day's activity (beer, water, food/snacks, life jackets (req'd), porta-potty, etc.). A small cabin can do the job.

If you want something with living space, you'll want to be around 27 ft, or longer. But I think as a beginner, that's not as likely a scenario as the other ones mentioned above.

As a beginner boat for day sailing or racing, the swing-keel Catalina 22 is pretty good and usually quite readily available on the used market. But there's other boats that'll also do a great job, depending on your preferences. Keep asking questions and I'm sure the sailors here will help you get off on the right foot.

Sailing club....always lookin' fer crew, etc. Most of my sailing (a novice) was on a 30'er in the St. John's and Atlantic over 25 years. A big boat for a lake and you'd feel like a sardine down below :)

Test the H2O by hooking up with others and learning ....save yer relationship :).

Sailing is a lifestyle and a total blast....have fun and listen to Jim...

PM pelican UserID sunroof for his suggestions.

I have had a Chrysler 22 and O'Day 26. Both swing-keel. I kept the 22 rigged on a trailer and launched-recovered each time. It was easy and we used it all the time. The 26 was launched and put in a slip for the season. Both are nice ways if the situation fits the bill.

I will say that I would not have wanted to launch and recover the 26 each time as it was just a little too much, too big to want that.

You answered the question I think.
Looking at the rez videos and that is not that big of a lake plus there is plenty of mucky areas (good for fishing) where a larger boat would just get stuck. A cabin is nice but made for longer trips or bangchickabowwow breaks. That seems like expensive overkill for a slight bit more comfort unless you're planning on more open water in the future.

The smaller Hobie Cat is a great racer but there would be zero storage and quite a bit of raw exposure to the wind and elements, which limits the season.

My father had a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_2 which was fast as heck and could hold a cooler and blankets. A great boat and slightly deeper than others. It can take a spinnaker as well. The boom is quite low and when used with a larger main sail jibes will lead to a serious knock on the noggin for taller people unless longer legs are planned. Maybe there are boom pads which can be added. It will also flip in high winds as discovered many times but is easily uprighted.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1567371911.jpg

I would agree with joining a club and try out a few boats and day experiences before making any bigger decisions.

Better idea, trailerable boat stored on the trailer at a lake where you can leave it rigged-that way put up/takedown is a once a season affair. Did this with a catalina 22 when I was between bigger boats. If its performance you want, seek out a Holder 20. Short lived design, but its a full on race boat that's reasonably forgiving for just day adventures. Enough to hold the interest of your s/o.

https://www.catalina22.org/

https://catalina.sailboatowners.com/classified2/adsmanager.php?task=res&brand=Catalina&location=Al l&pr=1000000&loa1=21&loa2=23&rank=date_last_insert ed&dir=DESC

Here are some photos from the boat I looked at this afternoon. It's a 1974 model C&C 30 that's had a $8-10,000 full bottom cleaning-coating-paint job up to the deck in the last 3 years. Receipts and photos of the process I looked at. The topside was painted at some point in the past. Overall, it is solid as a rock. Couldn't find any soft spots in the deck, all the hardware appears usable and in good condition. Has an Atomic 4 gasoline engine that would crank and start but only run for a few seconds, so there is some fueling issue there.

The inside cabin of the boat had a lot to be desired. Has the cushions which are in ok shape, but the cabinetry at the aft end of the cabin needs to be completely redone and refitted. All the large keel to hull studs/bolts looked good in the bilge and there might have been a cup of water in the bilge. Very dry. Rigged for a depth finder, speed etc. doo dad but that's not part of the deal with an asking price of $5000.





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C&C's are good boats. They make great coastal &/or Great Lakes cruisers. The inboard gas engine would not be something I would buy. A diesel would be safer. YMMV. It'll be moderately fast and stable in a fresh breeze, but possibly a bit sluggish in light winds.

This pic brought back fond memories of hours spent sailing our old Chrysler 15' Mutineer on a local reservoir. A centerboard dinghy teaches one about sailing...a larger ballasted boat teaches one more about boat camping.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutineer_15

We call the Atomic-4 the Atomic-Bomb. Danger, Danger, Danger.

Yeah, they’re great when they don’t explode.

I was pretty active in sailing for 20 years in SoCal. Mostly multihulls but a dozen or so dingys and keelboats I pulled strings on as well.

The C&C was a solid boat in it's day and a well respected coastal cruiser. They like a fresh breeze and anything under 10kts of wind will be pretty sedate. I don't know the wind and weather in your area but she might be a good choice if you are not looking to set speed records. She is 45 yrs old and there will be issues you have not found yet but at that price you don't have a lot to lose.

Greg Lepore gives good advice if you are going to sail in the same water. In my racing days we did exactly that. Boats were stored on trailers fully rigged.

If you want a trailerable day-sailer that you can take to different waters easily look into a MacGrgor 26. It fits all your criteria. Headroom, swing keel, trailerable on a low trailer, rigged in 15 minutes.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&u act=8&ved=2ahUKEwjHz9mVm7HkAhVyzlkKHTrLD-UQFjAAegQIABAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fasa.com%2Fnews%2F 2017%2F07%2F24%2Fcruising-boat-spotlight-macgregor-26m%2F&usg=AOvVaw0bRCBc0YCG7Bgjco8hORc0

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Hmmm. I’m not a fan of the MacGregor, but to each, their own.

I own the little sister of the C&C 30 - a 27.

Great boat.

Question is, is it the right boat for your situation? I was thinking a Catalina 22 may be a better fit. They point poorly but other than that, people love them.

I also think a j/24 could be loads of fun.

Minimum things to break and maintain = more fun. Really.

Thanks for the link to the article. I considered a Macgregor until the lady friends Dad weighed in.....I think he was the one mentioned in the article. Just comes across to me as a regular "family boat" that just happens to have sails for when you want to try sailing it....which is pretty much what the article stated. I've considered the "water ballast" boats as well, well, at least to realize that even though they might be light on the trailer to haul with a smaller vehicle, you've still got to haul it OUT of the water with a full ballast so you can drain it. A novel idea but in the end still going to require quite the vehicle to get it out of the water on the trailer.

The "Atomic 4" on the C&C 30....I agree, that is less desirable than a diesel engine when it comes to safety, I asked the owner about that and he turned on the large blower before attempting to crank the engine. I'll sit down and write out a list of the pros and cons on the C&C 30 see where I stand on paper instead of my head.

Next boat on my list to go look at is a Freedom 21. I've read up on it and am intrigued by the free standing carbon fiber mast, however, that mast is prone to damage that can be extremely expensive to repair.

As for the lady friend, "just find a Catalina 25 with a swing keel and a trailer and be done with it!"

Ahh, don't you like the old days of video tape? This is quite the "Demo" video of the Freedom 21, although sadly it gets rather shall we say "politically incorrect" at the 4:20 mark.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Mx7bMnQgRoY" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

x10

I've had just as much fun sailing a cape dory typhoon or Herreshoff 12 1/2 as a j/92, 105 or whatever. c&c 30 is a nice boat but not what I would call a daysailer. So many fewer systems, so much more stuff to worry about. I'm thinking about a 35, because I want to race in the ocean and/or go the the islands. Not the boat to putter around in.

If you are really cutting your chops and figuring out if you want to do this get a saling dinghy. Takes up minimal space, rig in minutes, learn a ton and use it as a tender for the big boat if/when you move up.

I love sailing small boats.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1567400140.jpg

A buddy in Jax had a 34' years ago...beamy and lots of room...not a fan either. My other bud sold the old 30' Morgan we'd all enjoyed for a couple of decades..new diesel (ins. replaced the gas....hell naw :(), sails, rigging, needed nada....around 7k ....helluva boat & deal...well set up fer racing..but old.

$$$ pits :)

I would be in your lady friends dads camp. No "real" sailor would consider the Mac26. But based on your OP it fit the bill. You didn't care about performance, you were looking for a reasonably roomy cabin due to your size and ease of trailing. The Mac26 Does a little bit of everything and none of it very well but you can get on the water and sail, overnight, get out of the weather, crank up the power and get home and launch and haul on a ramp.

The biggest hassles with any sailboat being trailered is unstepping/stepping the mast and getting the boat in and out of the water due to draft. Most swing keel boats in the size range you are looking at are probably going to need to be lifted in and out of the water due to their draft as there is going to be a small semi keel or the keel doesn't fully retract into the hull. You might be able to get an O'Day 19 down a ramp but few others.

Trailering a sailboat is a hassle no matter how you look at it. So ignore the salesman's statement if you are going to trailer a sailboat.

Sailing clubs often have some rental boats. This would give the chance to try different boats to see what you like. And the chance to travel and do some sailing in a variety of locations.

ASA certification will get you trained in the basics of sailing and boating safety, And qualify you to rent those club boats.

There so many trailer sailboats in the 20' to 27' range to chose from. In the seventies and early eighties boats were generally pretty stoutly built. Then from the nineties forward production boats generally got lighter and more cheaply rigged.

A friend has an Oday Mariner 20. Nice shallow draft centerboard boat with cuddly cabin and large cockpit.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1567427979.jpg

It's easy to rig, fun to sail in sheltered waters, can tow with most mid sized cars.
Weighs around 1,500 lbs.

I've been looking at trailer sailers for a while to use here in the often shallow waters in the southeast. I wanted a bit more cabin space for possible overnighting. Also wanted a bit more open water Capability.

I ended up finding Morgan 22. It's a compromise design with a shallow ballasted mini keel with center board in the mini keel. About 2' draft board up. And a bit wider hull than the Oday. At 2,500 lbs still trailers easly with a mid sized truck. Not too bad to rig. More cabin space with veeberth, quarter berth, and dinette for two.
Still has a good sized cockpit.

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For more comfort and performance a 25/27' fixed keel boat would be best. Still trailerable from deep ramps, take 2 or three people to rig. Weigh around 5,000 lbs
Will stand tall on the trailer. Tow with mid sized to full sized truck.

Think Catalina 25', J24 , vega 27 etc.

My 25' full keeled older wooden boat was very capible in open waters of Hawaii where I sailed inter island often. But with 4.5' draft was a bear on a trailer.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1567430307.jpg

The more exposure you can get to different boats will help in finding the best fit for your needs.
So much fun ahead.

Cheers Richard

NO real sailors lol at those beasts
a motor boat with a mast that sails very very poorly

C&C is a good boat but old with likely very old sails
plan on an other 5k for new basic sails [ main and jib] in dacron
the better newer plastic sails 3di/3dl style are far more money
as are the extra sails many have

then there is general maintenance, storage,

Great points! IMO, it’s easier to move up to a big boat from a smaller one, as there’s usually a bigger marker for the smaller, less expensive boats. And, you’ll develop the experience thatl’ll help you choose the right bigger boat for you. Good hunting!

The Catalina 22 is the most popular, mass produced pocket cruiser on the planet! They must have produced over 11,000 hulls. The Catalina 22 did not change much over the years since they were first introduced back in the early 70's. The great thing about the 22 is the various features that make them so versatile. They come with a retractable swing keel for easy launching, trailering and beaching while providing stability under sail. If you were not going to trailer the boat you can get the fixed keel or winged keel models. The 22 comes with a "pop top" which allows for the roof or top of the cabin to rise and add headroom, more cabin space and visibility. Its like a pop top camper. The 22 is outboard engine powered so you have many options on horsepower. The cockpits are large (bench seating can actually seat 6 adults, but tiller steering makes for more shifting crew around when tacking). The sloop rigging is the main and jib; however, you can get a roller furling jib, carry a good inventory of sails from a small jib, 110, 120, 150 genoa to a spinnaker. The interiors feature a small galley, potta potti, large v-berth, quarter birth for extended weekends and beyond. The Catalina 22 are bargains! Easily re-sellable, strong and a great starter boat. Do some research and you will see that their must be dozens for sale in the southeast. Good luck

Bob
Catalina 30 "Breezin II"
Lake Lanier, GA

plywood esp west system epoxy saturated wood is far better for long life
the hull is a single piece of plywood layers sealed in epoxy
then screwed together bits of wood old style construction
far stronger and less maintenance also
yes wood boats are pretty
and SOMEDAY will be valued classic's

but west system epoxy / plywood is state of the art wood today
and there are a fair number of 80's and later boats
esp tri's and cats or racers over 30ft

I am not a sailor, although I have spent a lot of time on sailboats from 40 footers to day sailors. I have sailed all over the Bay Area (one of my Cousins was a very, very committed sailor ((we called him Jim de Leon just to get a rise)), Charleston, Pensacola, etc. I roomed with three All American sailors from the Naval Academy at one time and they taught me how to really sail.

I have owned a Prindle 18 (for years) and provided launch service on my boat ramp to a number of small day sailors.

But I am not, definitively not, a sailor. Why?

Because unless the winds are right and the water is right, sailing bores me to the point of Waterborne Seppuku.

That and sailors are the most prickly, know it all's this or any other sport has produced, with the exception of Horsewomen: bad company and I can't deny.

Here in the Potomac River and Chesapeake there is a race called the Governors Cup. I have been asked to crew a few times and refused. RACING sailboat Mustafa's make the average sailboat D-Bag appear docile and mute. It is that bad.

So, to the OP, you are too big for a day sailor with your experience level. The advice to get one was excellent but get a Cat instead...at your size and weight you'll need every bit of 18 ft.

Learn to sail, spend time on the water and be happy. Buy everything, and I mean everything except safety equipment, used. Pennies on the dollar.

Then, if you are still committed to the insanity, get a used MacGregor: None of the people you want to ENJOY sailing with you will care that the boat makes really cool sailors cringe even though the experts have probably never stepped foot on one.

Like they have any clue the real differences between a Morgan and a Mac.

Your friends, who again, just want to have a pleasant day on the water, will enjoy motoring back to the harbor at 20kts in August in Mississippi after the wind dies while the Dennis Connor wannabe's are sweating their asses off. The other cool thing about a Mac - maybe you just want to take Mom and Dad out for a sunset cruise without rigging sails. You can.

After that trial, then get serious about wood and the rest. Ease into this and ignore the purists...they are all insane.

Trust me on this. The last time I sailed was the day that the Navy Captain buddy of mine moved away with his Mac.

I loved that boat. If I ever get another boat of any kind, here in Maryland, it will be a Mac.

^ ha

its all about perspective. I cant think of many worse ways to spend a day than hearing a motor droning on and on. Just about any reasonable sailboat with a motor will get you home at 5-6knts. Just lookout for the bozo power boaters flying around everywhere w/o an interest in the rules of the road, common sense or respect. :)

Anytime you want a seat on the boat we race every wed night. But, we do drink beer. Especially when the wind dies.

I was just having fun.:D

I will take you up on your offer.

Please give my best to your Dad.

Which is all the damn time! :D

It is sailing in those marginal conditions that really makes you appreciate the fine points of hull design and sail shape. There is real satisfaction in learning to keep the boat moving well regardless of conditions and being able to maneuver into and out of tight spots under sail. That's where the art of sailing comes in.

If you plan to just motor in, any time the conditions are less than ideal, just about any comfortable boat with a strong motor will do.

My sailing preference evolved toward offshore multihull sailing for many years, now shallow draft and easy rigging and towing to be able to travel to new areas, and keep it at home when not using it, Are important qualities in a GOOD SAILING BOAT are the priorities.
Horses for courses.

Cheers Richard

Haha, Hearing about prickly sailors on this forum cracks me up.

Hahaha! :D:D:D

As to your horses for courses comment...+1000! My boat choices have been all over the map. In order: Laser, Hunter 28.5, J/22, Albacore, Beneteau First 265 (current boat), and a Sabot (like an Opti) that I have propped against the fence, waiting for me to renovate it. The Sabot will be for puttering single-handed in and around the harbor when I want to sail and crew isn’t available. Now if I won the lottery, I’d probably want to buy a 40-50 ft catamaran and go cruising. :)

I have done both both, owned a swing keeled 24 ft Shock Santana with a trailer.
Also been in a sailing club with J-22 deep keeled race boats.

The club and the fast boat is much better.

Only one rule on a sailboat,
Tops are optional

Of course I have...I have sailed quite a bit. Don't tell me what you think I know, Sparky, I have been all over the world on the water. Ever sail for three days on a Dhow?

The OP asked a question. Is there a person here that thinks, with the OP's experience and size (a factor) that he should BUY A BOAT now?

Sailing Clubs, rentals, pay for instructions? Yes. Buy?

No. Emphatically no. I am sure T finds this humorous.

We all get it. For the love of God I KNOW! Is there a element on earth less dense than you? I have a lot of time on the water.

I can have the creaking sails and rigging sounds and tell tails and luff and some sailor telling me how f'ing cool it all is just before I blow my brains out.

Sailing is hard, getting there isn't a Jimmy Buffet song.

Do me a a favor: Do your recommend the OP buy a boat? Simple question.

That has been my point all along.

LOL....if ya have to leave beer behind....to lighten the load...in order to win....you lose.

That is serious sailin' advice ;)

Racin'...nope...not fer me...
.
'cept Wed night beer can races.....

.....don't do fishin' tournaments either...same reason...YMMV.