Fn fal

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

Just quietly... I know you Yanks love them but they are a PITA to carry around.

The M16-AR15 whatever is a much better option for a foot soldier.

And you can hump lots of 30 round mags.

7.62x51 vs 5.56

I don't see the mil getting rid of the 5.56 anytime soon... But that said there's more than the m4 and m16 out.

[sc_rufctr]

The 7.62x51 is an impressive round but they are heavy and expensive.

Anyways... I get it. The SLR as we called them is a great rifle.

[KFC911]

I have zero experience with modern rifles...they scare me . Never shot anything like 'em....

How much recoil does the shooter feel with .308...verses say a .30-30 out of a lever gun? Similar to how a .45ACP tames handspoon cartridges...give or take?

[id10t]

Originally Posted by KC911

I have zero experience with modern rifles...they scare me . Never shot anything like 'em....

How much recoil does the shooter feel with .308...verses say a .30-30 out of a lever gun? Similar to how a .45ACP tames handspoon cartridges...give or take?

If you look at the pure physics, a 30-30 has a 150 grain bullet (just under 10 grams) moving at 2400fps, 762NATO spec for M80 ammo is 147grn bullet at 2700fps. Given that NRG=mass * velocity * velocity, the 762 has a little more potential recoil than 30-30.

Now throw ergonomics and such into the equation and things change rapidly.

Gas operation will reduce felt recoil. Good ergonomics will too. I've had the pleasure of being able to fire a full mag from a full auto FAL, a full auto G3/HK91, and a real full auto M14 back-to-back-to-back. Of the three, the FAL has less felt recoil and was more controllable (keep on target). The G3/HK was pretty controllable but that delayed roller block doesn't help the shoulder much. The M14 had less felt recoil than the G3, more than the FAL, and had a very hard to control amount of muzzle rise.

And yes, Right Arm of the Free World. The words in the image below are the countries that issued a FAL variant... 93 of 'em.

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

The 7.62x51 is an impressive round but they are heavy and expensive.

Anyways... I get it. The SLR as we called them is a great rifle.

They are. Very good round. Still relatively cheap in the US for a 30 caliber. That said IF i was going to drop the coin on a 308. It wouldn't be the FAL. it would be the FN SCAR

[id10t]

Originally Posted by AZ_porschekid

They are. Very good round. Still relatively cheap in the US for a 30 caliber. That said IF i was going to drop the coin on a 308. It wouldn't be the FAL. it would be the FN SCAR

I've shot both side by side and for $3k+ I'd rather have a Belgian import FAL or a good kit build and plenty of ammo. Yes, the SCAR is more accurate and has less felt recoil but those are the only advantages. Mags cost 2-3x what surplus FAL mags cost, the reciprocating off-side charging handle will bruise or break your thumb, the muzzle break is annoyingly loud (requires plugs and muffs), parts are expensive, etc.

[911boost]

SCAR for the win, I like mine.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by KC911

I have zero experience with modern rifles...they scare me . Never shot anything like 'em....

How much recoil does the shooter feel with .308...verses say a .30-30 out of a lever gun? Similar to how a .45ACP tames handspoon cartridges...give or take?

My M1A has, at least as far as I can tell, no perceptible recoil. It jumps around a little bit, but I can shoot it all day long in just a tee shirt, without wearing a recoil pad of any kind. And it has a steel butt plate. I would say any ten year old who has experience with a .22 would be comfortable shooting it. Assuming he has a rest - it's kind of heavy and clumsy.

Of course maybe my perspective is a bit different. To me, recoil doesn't really start to get noticeable until about the .375 H&H magnum level, with a 300 grain bullet at over 2,500 fps. I've hunted with the darn things all of my life (I have three rifles so chambered today). So, yeah, I might not be the best point of reference on all of this. Recoil is pretty subjective, though. We can get used to just about anything.

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by id10t

I've shot both side by side and for $3k+ I'd rather have a Belgian import FAL or a good kit build and plenty of ammo. Yes, the SCAR is more accurate and has less felt recoil but those are the only advantages. Mags cost 2-3x what surplus FAL mags cost, the reciprocating off-side charging handle will bruise or break your thumb, the muzzle break is annoyingly loud (requires plugs and muffs), parts are expensive, etc.

The issue is they're nla. How much are you gonna spend on a parts kit? Starting 1,200+ And building it. Throw in the tax. The building route is no longer feasible. This is very evident in the ak47 part kit market. If one doesn't have an ultra rare kit ie North Korean, or even ddr. The value isn't there.

Sooo much easier to just change out the muzzle device on the scar if it's too loud for you...

[Jim Bremner]

Nice battle rifles! I got a bit of trigger time on one. would like to have an Israeli heavy barrel version

[sc_rufctr]

Just some thoughts. I carried one for years...

1. They're heavy, significantly heavier than an M16 but not necessarily a bad thing because the weight helps with handling and felt recoil.
When marching it was best to keep the rifle close to your body. I usually cradled it across my chest with the magazine removed on long marches.
2. Recoil, yes plenty but I'm not big guy and I had no issues leaning in and firing the rifle.
With practice you can use its weight to your advantage and stay on target after each round has gone down range.
3. They are a proper rifle. Old School loveliness. They ooze quality and they're made of steel.
The breach block and slider and precision machined and they're matched to each other. (The butt and forward stock were wooden)
4. Stoppages are easily cleared and the gas system is adjustable. A well maintained rifle will never jam even when caked in dirt.
But always clean them when you get a chance.

Some time later I was posted to an Infantry battalion.
When I got there I was issue an M16 & a Browning high power, those were the standard weapons for a Medic.
Two completely different animals... With the SLR you got a proper "bang" when you pulled the trigger.
The M16 felt like a pea shooter in comparison.

[Jeff Higgins]

FOG - please check your PM's. There is some VERY important information there for you.

[FOG]

PM replied to.

[FOG]

PM replied to.

[Jeff Higgins]

Got it - thanks. Disaster averted...

[fred cook]

Another one to at least consider is the PTR-91 or PTR-32. The 91 is in 7.62x51 (308) while the 32 is chambered for the AK round, the 7.62x39. The 32 uses the AK mags. These guns are made in South Carolina and are clones of the HK91 rifles. I have one of the PTR-32 rifles and have been completely satisfied with it. The company website:

https://ptr-us.com/products/7-62-x-51-mm/

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by fred cook

Another one to at least consider is the PTR-91 or PTR-32. The 91 is in 7.62x51 (308) while the 32 is chambered for the AK round, the 7.62x39. The 32 uses the AK mags. These guns are made in South Carolina and are clones of the HK91 rifles. I have one of the PTR-32 rifles and have been completely satisfied with it. The company website:

https://ptr-us.com/products/7-62-x-51-mm/

That 12.5 x39 barrel is screaming to be sbr. That's tempting