Fun with an FAL

[Jeff Higgins]

You guys might remember when, very recently, I put out an inquiry regarding the venerable FAL rifle. Well, I'm happy to report, a fellow Pelican came through and offered up an outstanding example of the breed, which I quickly snatched up. I have to admit, not being conversant in the lingo of the FAL, I really had no idea what the significance of a real, relatively unaltered, original "IMBEL" was, but I soon found out. Essentially, everyone I know who I have shown or mentioned it to has been in awe. I had no idea.

Anyhoo, my younger son and I retired to the local (actually, not quite so local, being 70 miles away) gravel pit to give it a thorough workout. He absolutely loved it. Flawless functioning with a variety of ammo, easy hits on my 8" gong from any field position at ranges out to 250+ yards. Definitely "battle worthy". Unquestioned build quality, especially against the backdrop of today's "black rifles".

So, why did it leave me relatively non-plussed? Maybe because I was able to match its performance with my Model 71 (updated 1886) Winchester lever gun in .348 Winchester. Granted, not the same (20 round) capacity, but I could easily keep it running by topping it off as needed, while he had to wait to empty the magazine before he would change them. Then, when all were empty, I could still keep topping mine off while he reloaded magazines...

Oh well. Maybe it's a generational thing. He loves it. He's ecstatic with it. It exceeds all of his expectations. Couldn't be happier. Me, I see a Parkerized, plastic stocked, rather soulless "appliance", contrasting with beautiful blued steel and walnut. And, at least in a "civilian" situation, at least equal effectiveness. Maybe I'm just too much of a romantic or something. It really is a fantastic rifle, by the measure of those who are into them. He is happy, and I'm happy that he is happy. But I think I'll stick to my lever guns...

[tabs]

One word..plastic.

[sc_rufctr]

I've always loved lever action rifles. They just make sense and the ability to top them off is brilliant.

The FAL is a great soldiers rifle. I can see the attraction but I'd prefer a lever action for "civie" duties.
And good luck mounting a scope on an FAL. (It can be done but it's not straight forward)

Ooo ah... This does it for me.

[cabmandone]

^^^^
Oh that's pretty! I was looking for a .450 lever action but didn't see any available (sold out). Too bad as I think it would have been pretty cool.

[sc_rufctr]

Jeff, we need some pictures of the rifles.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

I've always loved lever action rifles. They just make sense and the ability to top them off is brilliant.

The FAL is a great soldiers rifle. I can see the attraction but I'd prefer a lever action for "civie" duties.
And good luck mounting a scope on an FAL. (It can be done but it's not straight forward)

Ooo ah... This does it for me.

My next rifle is that, with plastic furniture (super-humid Gulf of Mexico area) and in .44 Magnum. I like the idea of common caliber for pistol and rifle.

I'd get a .357 Magnum, but they are harder to find and pricier!

[Jeff Higgins]

Rats - I neglected to snap a pic of the FAL. I'll have to do that next time we're together. It looks essentially just like this one, complete with Picatinny rail. Alex was very happy to see that, since he intends to mount some kind of an optic. The hard part is done already.



Here is my Model 71, standing alongside my Model 1886 Extra Light Rifle in .45-70. The Model 71 has the pistol grip and longer barrel:

[onewhippedpuppy]

Pretty tough to beat wood and blued steel. But I’d definitely find room in the safe for a FAL.

[911boost]

I had one about 20 years ago. Was ok to burn through $ in ammo. In its spot now is a SCAR that I very much prefer.

[Arizona_928]

I have a 45-70 recent manufacture. Damn already rusting just from sitting in the cab of my truck.
The stainless model would be of interest.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by AZ_porschekid

I have a 45-70 recent manufacture. Damn already rusting just from sitting in the cab of my truck.
The stainless model would be of interest.

If "recent manufacture" means since about 2010, your Marlin was manufactured by Remington, who acquired them in 2007. Remington shut down the original North Haven, Connecticut facility and laid off the entire staff in 2010, moving production to Mayfield, Kentucky. Quality of Marlin firearms manufactured in their new facility does not even begin to approach those made in North Haven. Inferior machining, inferior fit, and inferior finishes. As you have found, the "blued" ones (and no, it's not really blueing, it's some cheap ass finish that doesn't even look like blueing) are very prone to rusting. It's a crying shame, bordering on criminal, what Remington has done to Marlin, once one of the proudest manufacturers of firearms in the United States.

If you want a "real" Marlin, an example of the firearms on which they built their reputation, you need to get a North Haven Marlin. Fortunately, there were millions made, and prices remain reasonable.

Here are my three Marlins. From left to right, a Model 39A "Mountie" .22, a Model 1894 "Cowboy" in .45 Colt, and a standard Model 1895 in .45-70. The latter has been one of my main "go-to" rifles for big (sometimes nasty) critters in thick cover for over 30 years. It has spent an inordinate amount of time in our wet Pacific Northwest and Alaskan coastal forests and has never rusted, in spite of being carbon steel.

[sc_rufctr]

Nice rifles Jeff. I prefer a classic stock without the pistol grip.

[Jeff Higgins]

Aesthetically, I agree - the straight stock does look better. What I have found, however, is that the pistol grip helps control the rifle under heavy recoil. My standard hunting load in the .45-70, in modern rifles like the Marlin, pushes a 410-ish grain hard cast lead bullet at over 1,900 fps. The difference in controllability and a quick recovery for a second shot, if needed, is noticeably better with my pistol gripped Marlin than it is with my straight gripped Winchester. It also seems to make the lever a littler easier to cycle.

With regards to the original topic of the FAL, its pistol grip seems to make it much more controllable under rapid fire than the M1A with its more traditional, wooden, pistol gripped stock. Especially prone, where one has to bend his right wrist into a somewhat unnatural position to shoot the M1A.

[gtc]

70 miles away?
Did they close the Sultan gravel pit?

[FOG]

Jeff,

Glad Alex is enjoying the FAL. He doesn't need to let the magazine run dry before he does a mag change, he can change a partially empty mag for a full one during a pause then top up the partially empty mag(s) later.

Next time out try a little experiment at 200-300 yards prone comparing the FAL and the M1A. With 20 round magazines and in a good solid prone position shoot as rapidly as you think you can get good hits with someone timing you, then measure both score and mean point of impact as measured from the point of aim. Repeat but with a loud metronome set at 1 or 2 beats per second that the shooter can hear. I suggest multiple shooters to reduce the confirmation bias.

For what he's paying for the advice a suggest he saves up a CMP Garand. Add a new quality barrel and minimal work then enjoy.

S/F, FOG

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by gtc

70 miles away?
Did they close the Sultan gravel pit?

If you mean the one off of the Sultan Basin Road and 116th, yes, they closed it almost ten years ago.

Originally Posted by FOG

Jeff,

Glad Alex is enjoying the FAL. He doesn't need to let the magazine run dry before he does a mag change, he can change a partially empty mag for a full one during a pause then top up the partially empty mag(s) later.

Absolutely. As a dyed in the wool lever gun guy, and his dad, I do, however, reserve the right to tease him any way I can.

Originally Posted by FOG

Next time out try a little experiment at 200-300 yards prone comparing the FAL and the M1A. With 20 round magazines and in a good solid prone position shoot as rapidly as you think you can get good hits with someone timing you, then measure both score and mean point of impact as measured from the point of aim. Repeat but with a loud metronome set at 1 or 2 beats per second that the shooter can hear. I suggest multiple shooters to reduce the confirmation bias.

We have already more or less established which is the superior platform in this regard, with the FAL winning hands-down. Its ergonomics are simply better. Pure, mechanical accuracy, when one has the time to slow down and fire with no pressure or time constraints goes to the M1A, but that is not their intended use. Useable, real world "field accuracy" goes to the FAL. Far easier to hit with under pressure, or from less than ideal positions.

Originally Posted by FOG

For what he's paying for the advice a suggest he saves up a CMP Garand. Add a new quality barrel and minimal work then enjoy.

S/F, FOG

Heh heh... he does get all of the free advice any young man could ever hope for around here with regards to shooting. As luck would have it, our home range hosts several DCM matches per year wherein we could qualify for the purchase of CMP M1's. We should probably do that someday.

Now his older brother is interested. He's talking a Daniel Defense AR10, however. Go big or go home, I guess.

I have no idea where I failed these two...

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by jeff higgins

aesthetically, i agree - the straight stock does look better. what i have found, however, is that the pistol grip helps control the rifle under heavy recoil. my standard hunting load in the .45-70, in modern rifles like the marlin, pushes a 410-ish grain hard cast lead bullet at over 1,900 fps. The difference in controllability and a quick recovery for a second shot, if needed, is noticeably better with my pistol gripped marlin than it is with my straight gripped winchester. It also seems to make the lever a littler easier to cycle.

.

+1

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

We have already more or less established which is the superior platform in this regard, with the FAL winning hands-down. Its ergonomics are simply better. Pure, mechanical accuracy, when one has the time to slow down and fire with no pressure or time constraints goes to the M1A, but that is not their intended use. Useable, real world "field accuracy" goes to the FAL. Far easier to hit with under pressure, or from less than ideal positions.

...Daniel Defense AR10...

When you have access to the AR10, I would love a comparison to the FAL. I like the AR10/AR15 platform with the barrel inline with the stock.

I sold off my M1/M14 conversion rifle. And I'm considering selling the FAL.

I would LOVE an AR10 in 30-06!

[Geronimo]

I have an AR10, that's pretty well built from a friend... He sold it as he now runs a Scar 17s... which is in his words the best gun he's owned... which has been a lot.

I like my AR's, but am quite fond of my little CZ EVO scorpion.

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Now his older brother is interested. He's talking a Daniel Defense AR10, however. Go big or go home, I guess.

I have no idea where I failed these two...

Our youngest has had his eye on those too. He will be saving for a while. Our daughter has a soft spot for levers.