Anyone complete a 80% lower?
 

I'm wondering how successful this has been for those who have undertaken completing an 80% lower.

I'm sure this means something to someone.

It was easy with a router. just go slow.

OK, I'll bite, what the hell are you talking about?

Nevermind, google to the rescue.

It's a spoon thing

https://info.5dtactical.com/2016/08/03/router-guide-for-finishing-80-lower-receivers/

I have no interest in these things, so i have never finished one myself. I did, however, observe a few shooting buddies as they collectively went through their "group build party". It was fascinating to watch, since I'm of the engineer/machinist/mechanic persuasion myself.

There were half a dozen guys who all bought a different mix of 80% lowers and the parts required to finish them. With one experienced hobby level machinist, a vertical mill, and a drill press, they were all completely successful. Each build had its own parts-based nuances, its own areas of added attention, but nothing these guys couldn't figure out.

I think with what I think I know about you, your background, skills, and general wherewithal, you will have no trouble whatsoever. I'll think you will get a kick out of going through the process, and you will wind up with a far above average product when you are finished. In other words, you gots the smarts, you gots the skills, you will have no trouble whatsoever.

AKM is easier imho. "Drill baby drill" trunnion holes, and rivet the damn thing up.
Scarcity of anything other than romanian kits that are cost effective has dried up. I don't even bother anymore... In fact I sent out my ddr kit to be built for me as I got a good deal through a local builder...
I think the 1911 80's are the next diy build. they're soo simple they're build by hand in the third world countries, and shipped here.

That said I did pick up a cetme c parts kit from apex for black friday. I should have bought two so that it would have been economical to build more than 1. We'll see

Living under the Aussie gun laws I find the idea of completing your own firearm beyond amazing.

If I could I would!

There are other 2A things that home builders make that can't be seen by the cops. In Canada there was an out of work machinist building full auto Guns for fun and income.

I'll see if I can dig up a web page of a gattiling gun build

I agree on the AK, built a 74 from a Bulgarian kit. Have a few more unfinished kits still that I have had for a long time.

....or I could walk into a store, and buy a 100% lower....thats attached to a bunch of other parts.....collectively known as a Sig Sauer M400...

What is the point here? Having a gun with no serial #s?

I think that must be part of the appeal. Owning a gun that is not on any government list. With the millions upon millions of had guns in this country that are not registered at all, it can't be that hard to find one, but what the heck do I know about it.

I can also see the fun of building a precision machine that becomes a functional gun. I always wonder, what happens when the cops come across a gun with no serial numbers. I am sure they come across old guns that were never registered to anyone. All those guns would show is what store sold it somewhere in the USA.

One of my friends has a collection of guns that his granddad started, his dad added to, and now he has added to it. He has one pristine 1911 from an early production run that his grandfather bought new in the box and put in storage. It is over 100 years old and likely worth a lot. I admit, I lusted after it but it is more likely I would sell my 1985 911 than he sell that 1911.

Are you a store bought guy, or DIY?

It's more than that. Ar15 builds is child play compared to other kits.
It's pride in what you do, and that you can make it by hand in your home.
If you ever heard of the phrase. Built not bought.

Do you buy your pies at the store, or do you make them from scratch... (Same argument)

Not a single firearm of any kind in Washington state is registered to anyone. There is no mechanism in place with which to do so, no law in place under which we are compelled to do so. I believe that is the case in the vast majority of other states as well. As a matter of fact, I'm not aware of any registration requirements anywhere here in the United States.

Every attempt to impose any sort of a registration scheme has been met with furious resistance. History has shown that it is pretty axiomatic that "registration leads to confiscation". There is absolutely no reason for our government to maintain a list of who owns what, beyond that one, anyway.

Which, in the end, has always left me wondering about the appeal of a gun with no serial number. I understand the appeal of making a gun from a kit, and having something personalized at that level. I understand the appeal of that kind of work, the challenge involved. Hell, I have half a dozen rifles, one shotgun, and one pistol that I have built from kits. All muzzle loaders, though. It's kind of fun. I can see someone having that same fun with a more modern rifle.

Oklahoma has no gun registration either. I just sorta assumed that when a new gun is sold the serial number is registered with the ATF for that store, and sale date.

Do the FFL license holders register the serial number of guns the sell? Even if not the name of the purchaser.

I see the cop shows that always "run the serial number" and come back with names and past history. Of course most of those are set in NYC or LA and Chicago. Not in Slapout, OK.

IF I were to build one it would probably be an easy, but very satisfying project. Yes, you can get most of the satisfaction without doing the 80% part but it does add that next level of DIY.

https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/if-i-were-going-to-build-my-own-ar.264312/unread

Gun registration is a state thing.

As for ffl stuff. You can make it with the intent being not for resell. But can sell at a later date. Confusing atf verbiage. As for the log. It needs a serial number to be entered into the books. Paper trail is all it is. Not very good one as atf will have to directly audit your books to see where it came from. Needle in the hay sack.

That's why they call them ghost guns. Especially face to face transfers with no paper trail.

CO does not register either.

I enjoyed the hands on process of the build, taking the time to tear apart the cut up “kit”, then clean it, test fit and assemble.

The new receivers do have a SN#. I could have gotten flat or not finished ones, but the idea was to build them ourselves, not try and hide anything.

My understanding is that when a store sells a gun, they do a bunch of paperwork, and they have to hang onto that paperwork, but the paperwork never gets sent to any govt groups. It basically sits in a file of some sort for the period of time that they are required to keep it. I could be wrong or things could have changed.

According to the Internet (so it must be true):
https://www.concealedcarry.com/law/are-guns-registered/

It is my understanding (and I realize I could be completely wrong) that there is no permanent record kept of the sale. I know that, by law, all records of the NICS check are to be destroyed after approval.

It may very well be, as you are guessing, that there is a record of the "sold by" but not the "sold to". I honestly don't know. Good question, though. I've just never concerned myself with it. Many of my guns, due to their age, are bought from private parties, so in that case, I know darn good and well there is no record. Hmm... maybe one of our FFL's can clear this up for us.

There actually is a record kept. We're required to keep a "bound book", or electronic version now (so much easier than keeping paperwork). Any time we receive new spoons from distributors or mfg's directly, we acquire them. When we sell, we disposition them to the other FFL's, or do the 4473. I think we have to keep the bound book until we close our doors, then it probably goes to the ATF? 4473's I think the rule is that we still have to keep them on hand for 20 years, but after that they can be legally destroyed.

We had a case a few years ago where someone bought many firearms from many stores and had them all shipped to his local FFL. He committed credit card fraud to purchase them. Police had to call the mfg's of the spoons and then each distributor/store it went through to follow the trail.

I am going to the range Friday with guy that has built 4 80% that I know of. Just put it in the jigs and drill the holes. He is an aircraft mechanic so very meticulous. Doesn't seem too hard to be out of reach for anyone.

Holy smokes, Pelican sells guns??!!! Awesome!!! How come I can't find them on the website? ;)

So, I'm still a bit fuzzy. You, as the receiving FFL, when you "acquire" a gun, that is reported to the ATF? Then when you sell it to a private party, you keep the 4473 without forwarding a copy to the ATF? So, to "trace" a gun, the ATF comes to you, the FFL of record as last having "acquired" it, and asks you for the 4473? Is that how it would go?

I don't like the electronic version. I use a bound book. I could see the software being easier, but you also keep the completed 4473. so unless you're moving volume. I don't think it's worth it. Especially with the errors.
When you close shop you ship the atf your log book.

kinda. What do you mean by private party. FFL to non FFL? Face to face transfers don't go through a 4473 depending on state. ffl to ffl I just put in the lisence number into my log, and the name/address (of course the spoon details).


Even more interesting. ATF isn't allowed to imput the 4473 into a database. they have to sort through each of the paper 4473 to trace a weapon back.

We've been using GunStoreMaster for the past 4 years and its been great. We've had some special requests and they've rolled out the features for us pretty quick- customers actually really like being able to do their 4473's on the ipad too. It really comes in handy for your audits as well since it tells you every single spoon and suppressor you have in inventory.

Jeff, when I moved from WA to CA many years ago I would have been (had they not all been lost in a tragic boating accident) required to report any spoons I owned to the CA DOJ as CA would have considered me a 'Personal Firearm Importer'.

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/forms/ab991frm.pdf

Yet another reason to not live in the People's Republic

If you're a Cop, you have to tell me.

Not difficult. With the jig and a few HF tools, easy peasy - lemon squeezy!

Only issue, most are unfinished aluminum. You need a way to anodized or coat them.

Cerakote is common for that....

For finishing, I have been using Gunkote. It is an oven cured coating.

Excellent results. I’ll be coating and cooking a double barreled .410 for my son later this week. Was supposed to be a Christmas present, but may have to call it a birthday present at this point.

I may or may not have too many ar’s. So, I have been into building the 80% Glocks.
The P80’s have become my favorite pistols to shoot.

Buddy I built the AK with built a P80, he loves it.

The lower is peanuts.
It's not much of a firearm, it's just a box for linkage.

US law on that part is exception to the rule elsewhere, that the firearm is the bit where the bullet sits when it goes off.

Bit of a joke if you ask me.. The lower is much easier to fabricate, a lot less problematic if it's poorly made..

Rest of the world, with "real" gun laws.. the barrel and bolt/receiver will be considered the Firearm.

And it's almost impossible to make those to the level of quality needed for a semi auto and still accurate firearm..

Sure you could fab up an open bolt stengun like thing.
and you might manage to fab up something for .45 or 9mm handgun rounds that doesn't explode in your face. But it won't have decent rifling so it's just a spray gun.. not a rifle..like an AR15 would be.
That's doable the pressures are sufficiently low that you can do with a good spring and no locking mechanism..

To try and make your own semi automatic 556 rifled barrel, chamber it, and have a working semi or full auto bolt/receiver that's beyond the capabilities and equipment of most DIY enthousiasts...

^^^ Canadian gun law also considers the receiver the firearm...

You could do away with the AR15's lower, get a barrel, and an upper, and build yourself a single shot precision gun... that feeds through the ejection port.

You can't build a firearm with a 100% lower and no barrel.

I rest my case.