19 years of sitting- prep for start question
 

Looking for input from the Pelican brain trust...

Long sad story, my Brother's health has degraded to where he's on O2 full time and easily fatigued. I've become caregiver and now prepping to move him into a small apartment.

In his garage buried under nearly 2 decades of "stuff" is his 1990 Honda Prelude SI 4WS with a 2.1 4 cylinder MFI motor, 125k on the odo.
It was stolen back in 2001, the ignition has the wrong key hammered into it, it turns and works but won't come out thus far... the ********* that stole it also scratched up every panel on it. My brother was so frustrated that when he got it back he parked it and has not moved it since- tabs show April 2001.

With his OK I've made multiple trips to the dump and un-buried the car.
The engine compartment looks pretty good- considering. No rats, cats, bats or other species living in it. The dip stick shows it has oil in it, albeit low.
Tires were all flat of course, filled them up and they hold air.

My question is what all should I do before trying to start it?

My plan is to siphon out as much old fuel as possible, put in 5 gallons of fresh pure gas.
Top up the oil (it's dirty but still slippery).
I'll either pull the plugs and spray some oil down the cylinders, or pull the coil wire and crank it long enough to get oil circulated.
Then attempt to start it.

Any suggestions or modifications to my plan?

The goal is to get it running and fixed up enough to sell it for more than scrap value... NADA guides say it's only worth maybe $1200.

Pics.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1581267470.JPG

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1581267470.JPG

You seem like the exact person your Brother needs now...a great and difficult endeavor.

Concerning the car, I know EXACTLY what I would do, stay with me, this could get technical. First thing I would do: cut and paste the below.

Second step? Wait for someone to reply that knows what they are talking about:D

Good luck, Skip. My best to you and your brother.

Skip you are what a brother ought to be, well done sir. Like Seahawk I can't offer any wrenching advice but I do admire your devotion to your brother.

You will need to suck out old fuel and replace fuel filter to begin with. Drain and replace oil, flush the coolant. Brakes will be stuck, but that can be taken care of later.

I can't offer a whole lot on getting the car running other than check out the 911 tech section on bringing an old car back to life. You probably ought to try and get all the old gas out at a minimum along with fresh oil. Will the engine turn over by hand?

I had the 2.0 liter two valve version of that car - one of my all time favorite cars. Fun to drive and Honda reliable. Good luck!

Thanks gents.
Absolutely a labor of love. My brother is a decade older than I am and took me under his wing in my early teens, took me hiking, backpacking, canoeing, white water rafting, motorcycling and so on.
Pop's was adventurous too but battled physical and mental issues that made it impossible to do the things my brother and I did- I still love these activities to this day.

I can never repay the kindness and time big brother spent on me when I needed it most.

Those were cool little cars back in the day!

Think one of the mechanics will chip in for a more complete list but make sure there is coolant in it that is still liquid.

Good luck with it and I know you will post more photos!

Engine compartment looks real clean. I think you will have no problem getting it going again.

I am the original owner and still drive my 98 Prelude. Some years, it's sat without starting it at all. It always takes right off and still doesn't use any oil at 120K miles.

How is the interior? Stick or auto? Clean it up, fix the scratches...you'll get more than $1200 easily. Their values have been going up, I wouldn't sell mine for any less than $5K

Me?
Post photos?
Well OK

After a couple 4 hour stints of clearing the evil empire still smiles at me and the obvious love he's had of cheap Gin is apparent.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1581275713.JPG

After a couple more clean out endeavors the car begins to emerge

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1581275817.JPG

The canoe (17' Hawthorn fiberglass) hanging from the ceiling brings back great memories, here's my brother out on lake Wenatchee in April of 1976- I remember paddling across the lake and camping overnight. First time I ever woke up with ice on the inside of the tent... good times!
We also took it on multiple white water runs even though it's a lake boat.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1581275817.JPG

If possible I'd make sure the engine turns by hand.

Bypass the fuel system as much as possible. Feed from a can on the roof if you have to, or one of those big primer bulbs you see for boat use, etc. Once it runs from a can like that, keep re-attaching further back into the fuel system, replacing lines and filters as much as possible as you go.

I'd also use no-alcohol fuel - the gaskets, etc. may have a bad reaction to any in the gas since they are right on the edge of when alco fuel really got common.

Once it is running from the tank, brake lines, etc. all probably need replacing as will other belts, hoses, etc. Tires will need definitely need replacing before it is road safe, and so on. And if *poof* it ran magically all of those things would still need to be replaced by a buyer to make it road safe and reliable so they're gonna want 500+ off the $1200 KBB value....

You'll end up upside down compared to just calling the junk yard. List it on c-list for a week as "mechanics special", ask 800 and take 500. Local to me junk place takes cars for $400.

Interior is OK, driver's seat has some normal wear, 5 speed manual transmission.

It was/is a pretty cool car- the 4 wheel steering thing did not stick around long, although the new Taycan has brought it back.

It is a slippery slope expense wise to get it running and road safe, he nor I want to put too much in it.
There's a history of his cars breaking, sitting and being towed away for scrap.
I hope to avoid that and not end up upside down. Good thing is I'm a cheap mechanic!

For some odd reason I do enjoy projects like this.

Assuming it's in nice shape visually (paint, interior, etc...) if you can get it running decently, I would expect nostalgia and cult status to make that fairly desirable, especially with the 4ws and manual trans.

Good that it's not an auto...they were not very reliable. The 4 w/steering made the car a super nice driving car. I drove one for a day..took some time getting used to it..especially in parking situations. The back end doesn't follow the front as a normal car would. My prelude is my 3rd one...incredible cars!

Preludes have always been highly desirable cars. That's why it was almost stolen originally. They are so tuneable and robust that they were the favorites of racer gangs back in the day. Preludes were frequent of organized car thief rings because there was such a demand to chop them and turn them into street racers. Whoever tried to steal the car originally was an amateur trying to get it for the same reason. The technique on Japanese cars of that era was simple. It was impossible to pick the lock or use a key blank, but the lock cylinder was weak and there was no interlock device. So thieves just pounded a number four screwdriver directly into the lock and forced rotated the cylinder. At that point the screwdriver was as good as a key. A pro would have gotten away with the car. The would-be thief apparently didn't know how to drive the screwdriver in far enough to break the lock. The fix for it now is simply to install a new cylinder.

Anyway, don't sell it for KBB value. Once cleaned up it might be a BAT candidate.

I'd pop off the timing belt cover and make sure the engine spins before getting into it too far. Assuming its free replace the timing belt then continue with new fuel, good plugs and a battery.

I love those cars, good luck

Not sure if current 4 wheel steering cars do the same...but the Preludes pointed all 4 wheels the same way at speeds over 25 mph. At lower speeds, the fronts would steer the opposite of the backs. Made parking super easy...if you knew what was happening.

I think just about every 4ws car that I've ever heard of (since the Prelude) will either do one or the other depending upon the speed at the time.

https://cecas.clemson.edu/cvel/auto/...igure2and3.png

If you want to do it right, this is what I'd do, as a minimum...

Pull the plugs and fog the cylinders with oil. (I'd scope it with a borescope, too, but you may not have one)
Drain the oil. Pop the valve cover off. Add new oil by dumping it on the cam, to lube it. Turn the engine over to TDC on number 1. Add more oil to the cam and put the valve cover back on.
Change the timing belt. It's so old it might pop when you start it, which will turn your $1200 car into junk. New accessory belts, while you have them off.

Drain the fuel tank. Flush it with a few gallons of new fuel. Drain again. Put 5 gallons of new fuel in the tank. Pull the fuel return line, feed it into a bucket and jumper the fuel pump. Flush the lines until clean gas comes out. If you can stand to do it, flush the fuel rail and test the injectors, cleaning them if needed. Button up the fuel system.

Top off the oil, spin the engine over to build fuel pressure, put the plugs back in and change the air filter.

Start it and run it at 1500-2000 rooms for a couple minutes. Warm it up to operating temp and make sure the thermostat opens. Drain the coolant, flush the cooling system, drain again. Flush out the remnants of the radiator flush with distilled water. Add the required amount of coolant, then fill the system the rest of the way up with distilled water. Run and check for leaks.

Clear a path in front of the thing, stick it in first gear, depress the clutch and start it again. If the clutch is stuck, be prepared to kill it immediately. If not, then progress to the brakes. Flush all of the old fluid out at a minimum, rebuild the calipers and master cylinder if you intend to drive it.

If it's a runner, change the trans fluid, too.

This is a general list, doesn't include any specific details pertaining to a Prelude, or any of the obvious crap like replacing the battery.

Good luck,
JR

It wasn't speed dependent, it was steering wheel angle dependent...

nope
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I understand you wanting to pay back your brother for all he did for you in years past. It is admirable of you to come to him to help when he needs it. You both sound like good men.

All good answers so far technically. I love the level of experience and knowledge on this forum. That said, let me offer up another solution that I think is also not a bad choice. Gather all the pieces, advertise with lots of pictures on the Honda enthusiast forums (Honda Tech ?) online and locally on Facebook Marketplace. Sell it to an enthusiast for less than you could get if it was running, but maybe a little more than you could get off Craigslist.

Spend the time you would have spent fixing the car instead doing anything with your brother that he is able to do. Fix dinner for him, watch a movie or sports event, get out for short trips or even just short walks when he can. Laugh a lot. Cry a little. Reminisce often. Leave nothing unsaid. He obviously meant a lot to you earlier in your life and you meant a lot to him to take you along on all the adventures. Make sure each of you knows it and remembers. And all it would really cost you is a few hundred dollars of lost profit....great investment in my book.

Good luck whatever your path and I hope you guys get to to have some good times together either way.

Just another guy getting older and realizing how truly short life is....
Rob

YEP.

The first 4WS system used on the Prelude was introduced on the 3rd generation Prelude and was a mechanical system.

Later 4WS systems used by various manufacturers were electronic.

Your video is about one of the later systems.

https://autoweek.com/article/car-life/four-wheel-steering-demystified

from your link....
Honda’s second-generation 4WS, launched on the next-gen Prelude in September 1991, was new, using computer controls and an electric motor rather than a steering shaft and planetary gearbox. This system, intended to address the mechanical layout’s limitation, was similar to more recent 4WS systems, although newer systems have greater integration with other chassis electronics.

Probably the year of the one I drove. I remember asking the salesman about the tech bits.

This car has the earlier system...

A couple pics of my current Prelude

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1581286820.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1581286942.jpg

waiting for spring!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1581287571.jpg

Steve, maybe that Prelude in your garage needs a mate?
Looks like you have plenty of (really nice garage) space for another!

I am not the OP responding, just putting myself in his place.

I get what you are saying Rob, and it would be the advice I give anyone else.
BUT
My perspective (or maybe a confession):
I know how to do things. What I don't know is how to relate to people - even people I love. Fixing up the car would be something I could do and feel like I was making a difference. Just spending time with my brother, as much as I love him, would be difficult for me - it's something I have no idea how to do - and I would not feel like I was being helpful.
Edit:
So MrsWD says you don't have to be helpful, you just have to be there. ??? That's a totally alien concept to me.

Thanks, but no..looking to downsize instead. Hoping to sell one of the P cars this spring. SmileWavy

I do love this forum, amazing advice, caring humans, plus they put up with my weird photos and sense of humor without banning me.
Yet.

Rob, WD, you both hit the nail on the head.
Working on projects at his place helps me feel like I'm doing something to help him with the added benefit of being able to stop and sit down with him to discuss progress, problems and such.
We've been spending time talking and laughing about predicaments we put ourselves in over the years as I uncover layers of stuff long buried, kites, inflatable boats, RC cars, etc etc.

I'm fortunate to have spent at least one 7-9 day backpacking trip with him every year for 8 years in the North Cascades, then a week at the beach a few times till things changed with marriage, an offspring all that fun stuff.

His place is right off my route to the Y gym so it's easy to stop and see him at least 3X a week. The importance of time spent with people you love is clear to me.

Thank you for the great lists and steps. I'll keep posting if allowed.

Oh, one more project there too.
1983 Honda VFR750F Interceptor that's also been sitting for decades.
Time well spent.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1581300757.JPG

I'll be a caretaker for it, get it running and exercise it for the eventual hand off to my Nephew

I wouldn't crank it without having a plug or plugs attached to the ignition system. I've read on the CR-V forum that doing that can fry the ignition system. Don't know if it applies to the Prelude or not.
I was helping my brother just this past weekend. I know of what you speak when it comes to brothers.

That VFR is uber cool. '83 is the year to have IMO.

This is the only mention I saw of the timing belt... I agree. Pull the cover and inspect the timing belt. It will most certainly need to be replaced but you want to make sure that its not already broken or at a point of imminent failure. My first car was an '87 accord with the 8V 2-liter (and carbureted!). I'm not specifically familiar with the Prelude motor and I haven't had my accord since the late '90s but I am pretty sure it's an interference head. As long as the belt is not broken or doesn't have some nasty looking dry rot, it probably won't take much to get it up and going.

...the golden era of Honda's in my opinion

I also mentioned the timing belt, but I wouldn’t even attempt to turn the motor over with the old belt on it.

Thanks for that suggestion!
$37 for a new timing belt and another $30 for gaskets is pretty cheap insurance.

With my brothers OK I may hang on to the car for a while, it will get better mileage than my Ram pickup and be more fun to drive to boot.

He tells me it's always been his favorite car to drive, I'd bet he and I can pile up some more miles in it... we did get out together for drives at least a couple times a month to old favorite locations or for a meal until mid December when he took a bad turn breathing wise.

Now it's mostly trips to the Dr, we have 2 this week in fact.
It will still be fun in his old Prelude as long as he can get in and out of it.

When you do the timing belt, check the tensioner and water pump while you’re there.

I wish I had the time and knowledge to jump in and help. Unfortunately I'm lacking in both. :D

But if you do end up selling it, I have a 20 year old who could use a solid commuter car.

I bet your brother would be thrilled to see the car running again. Good for you for all you are doing. I wonder if someone with some skills in paint correction/detailing could help with the scratches?

a great review of the 4WS Prelude.
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Thank you guys for the suggestions, thoughts and review!

I have a timing belt, water pump and seal kit coming, also the drive belts, Haynes service manual, valve cover gasket and spark plugs on the way.

I found an Interstate "blem" battery for half normal price, charged it and put it in the car. When I turned the key all the gauges came to life, the electric windows work and best of all the headlight pods open and close accompanied by a cool dual electric motor sound!
So far, so good!

I tried to siphon fuel out with a 5' hose that has a cap and 2nd small hose to start gas flow without the delicious ancient fuel taste, that failed. Something blocks the hose from reaching the fuel (gauge reads half tank).
I think my best bet is to disconnect the incoming fuel line at the filter and jumper the fuel pump to drain it.

I did talk with my brother about what he wants to do with the car, he loves the idea of getting it roadworthy and getting out for some joy rides, so I'm all in!

Good for you, I think this will be good for both you and your brother.

Speaking of the fuel filter, you should probably replace it. Gas that old has a nasty habit of finding ways to obstruct small passages. As an example, last week I started a similar project on a 1986 Honda VF1000R that has been sitting for a long time, perhaps more than 20 years. The fuel tank was half-full, but even though I could blow air back into the tank through the lines, not a drop of fuel would flow the other direction.

Any rubber fuel lines will be hard as a rock and dangerous, although that can probably wait until you get the thing running.

There are a million Internet forms out there, when you get into this project in detail it will be worth your time to learn more about the specifics of each step that you take. No matter what you do, there’s always some guy that’s already done it and documented it for perpetuity on the Internet.

Good luck, and have fun.