Elon Musk says college is 'basically for fun' but 'not for learning,'

[RWebb]

Bill Gates richest person in the US, cofounder and president of Microsoft, the leading computer software firm; Harvard dropout
Richard Leaky famous primatologist, studies human origins; college dropout
Albert Einstein kicked out of high school in Germany
Oliver Stone award winning film director; Yale dropout
Madonna dropped out of Univ. of Michigan
Steve Jobs cofounder of Apple Computer; dropped out of Reed College
Steve Wozniak ‘Woz’ cofounder of Apple Computer; dropped out of U. Colorado, later got a degree from Berkeley
Wynton Marsalis famous jazz and classical player and composer, director at Lincoln Center; dropped out of the Julliard School to tour with Art Blakey’s band

A very few people don't need college and will be able to get an education on their own. Others simply are not prepared to handle the intellectual rigor of college or would rather become skilled in an art such as music, fine cabinet making, deep sea fishing, or whatever. This is not to say that the latter group won't benefit from college — they will, but they don't need it.

The rest of us need college.

[red-beard]

You forgot Zuckerberg

[RWebb]

those are old lecture notes for a Fresh. class I used to teach

pre-Zuckerberg

besides, Zuckerberg is a demonic presence; wouldn't hold him up to kidz as a model

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by McLovin

It’s why the competition for the very top schools is so fierce. The degrees are worth substantially more.

That's actually only true for a select few fields and schools. For most careers you are far better off attending a public college. Not just my opinion, there are quite a few articles on the topic.

I worked full time as a full time engineering student, married with a wife and kid, and carried a little better than a 3.0 at a public university. Because of my experience I was still offered more money upon graduation than a fresh MIT grad with a better GPA.

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by RWebb

Bill Gates richest person in the US, cofounder and president of Microsoft, the leading computer software firm; Harvard dropout
Richard Leaky famous primatologist, studies human origins; college dropout
Albert Einstein kicked out of high school in Germany
Oliver Stone award winning film director; Yale dropout
Madonna dropped out of Univ. of Michigan
Steve Jobs cofounder of Apple Computer; dropped out of Reed College
Steve Wozniak ‘Woz’ cofounder of Apple Computer; dropped out of U. Colorado, later got a degree from Berkeley
Wynton Marsalis famous jazz and classical player and composer, director at Lincoln Center; dropped out of the Julliard School to tour with Art Blakey’s band

A very few people don't need college and will be able to get an education on their own. Others simply are not prepared to handle the intellectual rigor of college or would rather become skilled in an art such as music, fine cabinet making, deep sea fishing, or whatever. This is not to say that the latter group won't benefit from college — they will, but they don't need it.

The rest of us need college.

^ Very well said!

[MRM]

Mr. Musk is superbly well educated for a person who degenerates the value of a college degree.

A bright, motivated person can educate himself as well as a college graduate, but it is hard for someone on their own to replicate the discipline and direction that are required to take the classes, navigate the campus and gather the credits necessary to graduate in the time allowed.

[rusnak]

A great high school will put you through enough rigor that by applying for and preparing for college, you will learn time management and how to do your research to work the system.

But a great university will let you take those skills and go pro. It's a time for learning. That's why I say Musk is full of it and he knows it.

Once it's time to get to work, your brain's biggest contribution is to tell your body to get up and get going. The untrained psyche becomes your biggest limiting factor, not raw intelligence. That's where the rigor of previous life gives you (1) a tough psyche or in Ted Talk lingo, "grit"; and (2) the curiosity to seek out new knowledge or at least the ability to recognize when it's time to change your perspective.

[wdfifteen]

I missed the fun part of college. I worked my way through, often working 40 hr weeks while taking a 1/2 load of classes. No parties, no dorm room, no damn fun at all.
Mr Musk apparently had someone else paying his bills if he had time to have fun.

[PorscheGAL]

I am currently back in school for nursing and my son is in college for engineering so I thoughts come from those experiences.

College is very different now than 20 years ago when I was in school the first time. My son has no say so in his schedule. He doesn't get to choose electives. The schools have set up the credit requirement where it is almost impossible to graduate in 4 years. For him, college is a checklist to complete.

For me: I am half way through the clinical aspect of nursing school. I spend most of my time preparing for the licensing exam and writing papers. My time with patients has been minimal. I am legitimately worried that none of the students will come out of nursing school with any hands on skills but we will be able to pass the licensing exam.

Nothing, at this time, is fun about college. It is a series of check the block activities.

I also don't believe that college makes someone capable of doing most jobs or being creative to find solutions to problems. It also doesn't allow anyone to become better at critical thinking because it is completely laid out for you.

[DFW_IE]

I guess I was lucky. I worked full-time, paid for most of my engineering degree and still managed to have a good time. I never did have a spring break though. In my experience, the guys that couldn’t really make the time for “fun” were the guys that had families- those guys were on a mission. They had to improve their situation to support the family.

Now - grad school was all work- no fun.

[tcar]

Originally Posted by red-beard

You forgot Zuckerberg

Well, FB would not have happened if Zuckerberg wasn't in college at the time, tho...

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by PorscheGAL

I am currently back in school for nursing and my son is in college for engineering so I thoughts come from those experiences.

College is very different now than 20 years ago when I was in school the first time. My son has no say so in his schedule. He doesn't get to choose electives. The schools have set up the credit requirement where it is almost impossible to graduate in 4 years. For him, college is a checklist to complete.

For me: I am half way through the clinical aspect of nursing school. I spend most of my time preparing for the licensing exam and writing papers. My time with patients has been minimal. I am legitimately worried that none of the students will come out of nursing school with any hands on skills but we will be able to pass the licensing exam.

Nothing, at this time, is fun about college. It is a series of check the block activities.

I also don't believe that college makes someone capable of doing most jobs or being creative to find solutions to problems. It also doesn't allow anyone to become better at critical thinking because it is completely laid out for you.

Interesting observations. My college years (chemistry) were all about practicing laboratory techniques and using them to investigate an unknown. The professor would give us a vial with a powder or liquid in it and we had to figure out what it was. In physics we used the tools given to us in calculus to figure out problems. Sometimes silly ones but they required us to think...a lot.

Sometimes our physics professor would say "starting with F=MA derive the equation for …." and we'd start substituting terms and go off on some mathematical journey. I didn't use those exact tools much in my career, but I certainly used that form of analytical thinking for problem solving all of the time.

[RSBob]

Even though it’s fun to bash education, I’m sure glad my physicians are well educated and we are beyond blood letting. That goes for aeronautical engineers and many more.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by RSBob

Even though it’s fun to bash education, I’m sure glad my physicians are well educated and we are beyond blood letting. That goes for aeronautical engineers and many more.

Certainly.

Just remember one simple math FACT.

50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of the class.

We all want the guy at the top, but there are lots of crappy professionals out there.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by MRM

...

A bright, motivated person can educate himself as well as a college graduate, but it is hard for someone on their own to replicate the discipline and direction that are required to take the classes, navigate the campus and gather the credits necessary to graduate in the time allowed.

It is easier to self-educate nowadays due to the public internet.

e.g.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spUNpyF58BY&feature=emb_logo


But there is really no substitute to watching one of the world's experts in a given field think out loud in front of you. That is the value of attending college (besides interacting with other students).

You can get the above a public university too - the best bargain is to go to a public univ. and then get into the honors college there.

For the sciences, I suggest that public univ. may be better than taking science classes at a high quality liberal arts college, as you can either hang out in someone's lab, and maybe even get a job with them (work study). Besides the prof., you can interact with grad. students and post-docs.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by PorscheGAL

I am currently back in school for nursing and my son is in college for engineering so I thoughts come from those experiences.

College is very different now than 20 years ago when I was in school the first time. My son has no say so in his schedule. He doesn't get to choose electives. The schools have set up the credit requirement where it is almost impossible to graduate in 4 years. For him, college is a checklist to complete.

For me: I am half way through the clinical aspect of nursing school. I spend most of my time preparing for the licensing exam and writing papers. My time with patients has been minimal. I am legitimately worried that none of the students will come out of nursing school with any hands on skills but we will be able to pass the licensing exam.

Nothing, at this time, is fun about college. It is a series of check the block activities.

I also don't believe that college makes someone capable of doing most jobs or being creative to find solutions to problems. It also doesn't allow anyone to become better at critical thinking because it is completely laid out for you.

I'm curious...

Is your son a Jr. or Sr.? That's where the electives are.

Are you getting a 4 yr RN?

Is there a clinical requirement for a state license? Is it after the RN?

[PorscheGAL]

Originally Posted by RWebb

I'm curious...

Is your son a Jr. or Sr.? That's where the electives are.

Are you getting a 4 yr RN?

Is there a clinical requirement for a state license? Is it after the RN?

My son is a Jr. and his final semester will be 4 electives but the rest of the classes are predetermined for specific semesters. He just chooses the time slots.

I am currently working on my Associate RN. There are clinical time requirements 60 hours a semester(if I remember correctly) for 4 semesters. It does not need to be patient care; it can be practice on a dummy or lecture. That time does not equal skills learned. After taking the state exam, most hospitals now require on the job training of 3 or months because of the lack of hands on. To finish a Bachelors, all schools have move to a 1-year online nurse management type of curriculum with no additional clinical hours.

[RWebb]

Hmmm... interesting on both counts. It seems like the experiential parts for both have been off-loaded to others

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Originally Posted by RWebb

do you have any comparables for F1?

For designers and engineers at a guess I'd think around 90% the other 10% made up of technicians that have made the difficult leap from the workshop or track to a desk job.

Personally I'm not bothered what letters people I work with have before or after their names, it's how good a job they do that counts

[RWebb]

Sure - the degree just gets you in the door.