Ventilators

[pavulon]

I’m wondering about the ventilators to be made by various manufacturers. Modern ventilators are pretty sophisticated and reliable machines but almost magically, GM is gonna be making them. I don’t see this going very well

[Flat Six]

IIRC, GM will retool to make a current-production ventilator under license. Not redesigning/reinventing the wheel.

[Norm K]

If they wheel one in embossed with the model name Beretta, Citation or Chevette I guess I'll have to take, but probably won't like my chances.

_

[908/930]

I do not get it, the time it will take to set up a plant alone, still need the parts for the assembly and training the people, possibly not automated assembly?

Would think that a company who has a small product assembly line already set up making (toaster oven's, microwaves) would be faster to convert, not sure how many of those are still in USA.

[URY914]

I bet the lawyer$ are already lining up if one fail$.

[DonDavis]

On a similar note, I stopped by our local metal scrap yard. They were fashioning an MRI out of their electromagnet...for realsies.

I mean, folks are talking about homemade ventilators, why not?

[PorscheGAL]

My question: How many people really need a ventilator? Hospitals have O2 coming out of the wall in all rooms. My guess is most would be ok with that. Ventilators are for intubation scenarios. IIRC

[DonDavis]

Originally Posted by PorscheGAL

...snip...Ventilators are for intubation scenarios. IIRC

Exactamundo!

[URY914]

Originally Posted by Norm K

If they wheel one in embossed with the model name Beretta, Citation or Chevette I guess I'll have to take, but probably won't like my chances.

_

The Vega model scares me. It already comes with rust.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by 908/930

Would think that a company who has a small product assembly line already set up making (toaster oven's, microwaves) would be faster to convert, not sure how many of those are still in USA.

I'd guess none.

[pavulon]

Originally Posted by PorscheGAL

My question: How many people really need a ventilator? Hospitals have O2 coming out of the wall in all rooms. My guess is most would be ok with that. Ventilators are for intubation scenarios. IIRC

It doesn't take a lot for some populations (elderly, mobidly obese, COPD, asthmatics...) to tip into respiratory failure and this virus seems able to provide that service to even healthy young people.

[notmytarga]

Ventilators are necessary in a high number of the COVID cases - certainly all those that have died either were on one or needed it. What the medical community is finding is that the 'vent runs' for COVID are longer than all the typical ICU ailments - ARDS (adult respiratory distress syndrome), COPD (chronic obstructive pulmonary disease), and pneumonia - averaging 14 days. So it is obvious with the sheer numbers and this long time that ventilator needs will be high.

Churning out the parts needed for assembly seems to be something that small suppliers would have to do - automakers put the big stuff together with the small parts. I am sure there are production people that are way ahead of us making this all happen.

My thoughts are whether the liquid oxygen supply will be taxed since most of this is for medical needs. I do know the winery industry uses oxygen to start fermentation - so the SF Bay area ought to have additional resources!

[Mark Henry]

Company in Spain has a 3D printable ventilator that can be made for about 500 euro on fast track approval right now.
https://www.3dnatives.com/en/3d-printed-respirator-230320205/

[Mahler9th]

"My question: How many people really need a ventilator? Hospitals have O2 coming out of the wall in all rooms. My guess is most would be ok with that. Ventilators are for intubation scenarios. IIRC "

There is a lot of information available on this. In the US data, a certain number of hospitalized Covid-19 patients need intensive care settings. These are called ICUs. There are even different ICU levels in some care settings.

In the US data, a certain percentage of Covid-19 patients needing ICU settings require invasive ventilation in those settings.

This level of care in ICU settings has its own morbidity and mortality risk.... but I digress.

ICU settings are replete with a lot of critical care and other medical equipment and devices. For example a hospital grade pulse ox (I have worked with 2 of the 3 guys that developed the technology and launched its widespread use).

And there are disposables which must be changed at specific intervals.

There are heavy, heavy staffing requirements.

And, yes, the data from New York suggest that Covid-19 patients are needing ICU w/ ventilator care for much longer periods of time than the average from all other ICU-level morbidity. That is a big deal.

[Mahler9th]

Some of the global efforts to expand availability are based on new designs and some on existing designs. I reckon' most are the latter. The former carries significant risk.

In the US, the design and approval process for ventilators is highly regulated. FDA is the agency. The process is too complex to describe easily-- it might be helpful to picture that medical equipment like ventilators (i.e., those in regulatory Class III) go through a process like an airplane or space shuttle.

Pretty much all user training materials like manuals are also reviewed by FDA in the design process.

There are rigorous processes for QC at the end of manufacturing (before units can be shipped).

And don't forget ... units in the field have to be maintained and likely that includes some type or types of calibration. So service folks and in-house biomedical engineers need to be available and trained.

Yes biomedical engineers and manufacturer service folks are also key players in the availability of ICU/ventilator capacity. So it is not just medical folks!

Most folks don't know much about this... I have 40+ years in this industry...

[Mahler9th]

It is highly likely that folks like GM will be trying to help expand manufacturing capacity of existing designs. They may assemble complete systems all the way through to finished (shippable) goods, or someone else might do teh final QC. Of course they may just build sub-assemblies. I am sure they will do whatever they can do.

I don't know who GM will work with, but I know Ford is working with GE. I worked at GE on medical equipment like $1M x-ray systems and CAT scanners on both the technical side and the business side.

[John Rogers]

The O2 coming from the wall connection is like the air hose to a NASCAR impact wrench. A ventilator actually pumps in place of your lungs if they cannot. When my wife had her bout with pneumonia 7 or 8 years ago she was in a pressurized room and had a ventilator for 5 days. For the last 1 1/2 they had to strap her hands down as she kept trying to pull the tube out....very uncomfortable she said later! Kind of like the tubs I have had go through my nose and down my throat to clean out the stomach blockage and blood build up!

[HardDrive]

My wife is a doctor. If you have Covid-19, and need a ventilator....your prognosis is not good. Very high mortality rate if you get to that point.

[URY914]

It will take months for the GM vents to get to patients.

[sc_rufctr]

According to this article you guys have 5 ventilator factories in the US.

I'd imagine they're all working around the clock right now.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/small-seattle-firm-working-around-clock-make-life-saving-ventilators-n1162951