Navy pulls captain of TR

[mattdavis11]

The ones on board. They pay, tenants.

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by mattdavis11

You don't put your men in harms way when not at war.

They are put in harms way everyday on a carrier, when they are operating planes,
the deck is the most dangerous place to be in the world.

It comes with the territory ... a Carrier is no playground.
Not at war has very little meaning in that context.
There's no room for lax standards, discipline or judgement because screw ups do cost lives.

During the period of 1980 –1993, active duty Navy personnel suffered 4,607 deaths attributable to unintentional injuries (59.4 deaths per 100,000 population),
with an all-cause mortality total of 7,485 (96.5 deaths per 100,000 population).
That's almost 1 in 1000.. I would think that the effect of Corona on healthy young population on a carrier, is MUCH lower.

Ill admit those aren't recent numbers, and likely to have improved.. but still puts the range in which they are working in perspective..
And if those numbers improved , it was because of good guidelines, procedures, AND the discipline to adhere to them. That includes command judgement.

[Hard-Deck]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/04/trump-wants-him-fired-inside-ouster-capt-brett-crozier/%3foutputType=amp

“I think the firing was a really bad decision, because it undermines the authority of the military commanders who are trying to take care of their troops, and significantly negatively impacts the willingness of commanders to speak truth to power,” said retired Adm. Mike Mullen, the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, in an interview Saturday.

I remain: CAPT Crozier is an American hero.

[Chocaholic]

And it was just announced, Capt Crozier has tested positive for COVID-19.

Will Danimal and Gretch say that Admiral Mullen also doesn’t know anything of value on this subject?

[Hard-Deck]

Originally Posted by Chocaholic

And it was just announced, Capt Crozier has tested positive for COVID-

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/magazine/navy-captain-crozier-positive-coronavirus.amp.html

[Chocaholic]

Crickets.

[RNajarian]

The Secretary of the Navy Made the Right decision. Period. Those of you who have never served can have your (wrong) opinion but it does not change the fact this Hero (no sarcasm implied) made several grave errors

1) Exposing vulnerabilities to a Military Installation (The TR)


Sending official military communication over a non secure email system with 20 recipients with neither the proper security clearance or the need to know is a major lapse of judgement. Merely using a Flash Drive to store non classified documents is a punishable offense.

2) Needlessly worrying family members about their loved ones deployed, again a major lapse of judgement.

I am sorry this thread has become political. But those of us currently serving understand the bigger picture and the implications of decisions made.

I can assure you there are ways of getting things done outside of the normal chain of command WITHOUT exposing vulnerabilities or needlessly worrying families.




“Thomas B. Modly, the acting secretary of the Navy, said he had lost confidence in Crozier’s ability to command the ship effectively as it dealt with the evolving crisis after Crozier sent the letter on an unclassified email system to 20 to 30 people. Sending such a letter, Modly said, caused unnecessary alarm about the operational readiness of the ship and undermined the chain of command. “In sending it out pretty broadly, he did not take care to ensure that it couldn’t be leaked,” Modly said. “And that’s part of his responsibility.”

[Hard-Deck]

When I was a brand-new Army Major, being interviewed to command a Company for my unit, I was asked by the panel, “If you were put in a position to have to choose between taking care of your Soldiers or the Army, which would you choose?” I replied, “I’d take care of my Soldiers, the Generals can take care of the Army.” They said, “perfect answer.” I was hired. I’ve been promoted several times since then, commanded several times since then. CAPT Crozier is an American Hero. He may not be a Navy Bureaucracy hero, but he IS a great American. I’d take him to war with me.

[Hard-Deck]

I took a little poll at work yesterday. I asked mid-grade and higher ranking Sailors, Soldiers and Marines about the decision to relieve CAPT Crozier. All the Sailors said he should be fired. All of the Soldiers and Marines said he’s a hero. Cultural differences exist.

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by Snapper33

I took a little poll at work yesterday. I asked mid-grade and higher ranking Sailors, Soldiers and Marines about the decision to relieve CAPT Crozier. All the Sailors said he should be fired. All of the Soldiers and Marines said he’s a hero. Cultural differences exist.

It may be that's why the enlisted don't make those decisions.

[Hard-Deck]

Originally Posted by flatbutt

It may be that's why the enlisted don't make those decisions.

It even creates an imbalance in decisions amongst the seniors as well. Obviously; this thread proves it.

[Hard-Deck]

https://news.yahoo.com/protective-bubbles-how-two-army-generals-stopped-the-spread-of-coronavirus-among-their-soldiers-090047822.html?

“[General] Cloudier is one of two generals that Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy and Army Chief of Staff Gen. James McConville have highlighted repeatedly in recent press conferences as examples of military leaders who have excelled in keeping their forces largely safe from the coronavirus. The other is Gen. Robert “Abe” Abrams, who commands all U.S. forces in South Korea.

Their success is a bright spot for a Pentagon now facing a torrent of criticism over the firing of a captain of a U.S. aircraft carrier stricken by the coronavirus.

[Hard-Deck]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/05/this-is-what-was-so-unusual-about-us-navy-making-captain-brett-crozier-step-down/

[Chocaholic]

Originally Posted by RNajarian

The Secretary of the Navy Made the Right decision. Period. Those of you who have never served can have your (wrong) opinion but it does not change the fact this Hero (no sarcasm implied) made several grave errors

1) Exposing vulnerabilities to a Military Installation (The TR)


Sending official military communication over a non secure email system with 20 recipients with neither the proper security clearance or the need to know is a major lapse of judgement. Merely using a Flash Drive to store non classified documents is a punishable offense.

2) Needlessly worrying family members about their loved ones deployed, again a major lapse of judgement.

I am sorry this thread has become political. But those of us currently serving understand the bigger picture and the implications of decisions made.

I can assure you there are ways of getting things done outside of the normal chain of command WITHOUT exposing vulnerabilities or needlessly worrying families.
”

Please explain this to Admiral Mullen. He disagrees with you. I believe he has served. And his opinion is 180 degrees from yours. Thoughts?

[Alan A]

Maybe you have to stop serving before your opinion is correct?

[Hard-Deck]

Originally Posted by Alan A

Maybe you have to stop serving before your opinion is correct?

I’m still serving, and I maintain that the Captain is an American hero.

[RNajarian]

It is simple:

It is EASY to alert your chain of command of any concerns you have for your personnel.

If the Captain’s superiors were ineffective/incompetent or merely stonewalling a simple call to a congressman (who does have the proper clearance AND a need to know) will get the gears moving VERY quickly, WITHOUT potentially endangering the crew, causing panic among the families of those deployed.

This subject has become political.

And I maintain the Hero Captain (again no sarcasm implied) had a severe lapse of judgement.

You DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT send sensitive information on the combat readiness of your command/vessel to your superiors via UNSECURED channels, AND YOU DO NOT INCLUDE PEOPLE IN THAT COMMUNICATION WHO DO NOT HAVE THE PROPER CLEARANCE OR NEED TO KNOW.

. . . and if you are wondering I would be glad to tell THAT to the Admiral myself.

My “beef” with the Captain is that he improperly conveyed his concerns to his higher ups.

I would like to hear the Admiral’s opinion on how the Captain notified his chain of command.

Earlier some individuals took umbrage with my mention of OPSEC. Well here is another term for you guys to chew on . . . CYBER AWARENESS. Every military member takes that course while at Tech School and a refresher every year.

. . . no surprise, we are taught NOT to send sensitive information over unsecured channels and NOT to include individuals without the proper clearance or need to know.

If you want, I’m at the base this fine Sunday Afternoon, I’ll look up the Admiral on the Global and send him the link to this Pelican Parts OT discussion (. . . and Yes, that last line WAS sarcasm)

[Gretch]

Originally Posted by Chocaholic

Crickets.

Crickets my ass...........

you are just plain wrong and not worth responding to.

My opinion remains;

he phuqed up, he got fired.

end of story.

[Danimal16]

Originally Posted by Snapper33

I’m still serving, and I maintain that the Captain is an American hero.

I would disagree. What he did was not heroic. What he did was essentially broadcast in the open, the open, that there is a significant decrease in the readiness of his warship. That in itself is poor judgement. I will reiterate, it is reasonable to question his judgement.

What you will not hear is what resources or COA's were implemented to get him the support he needed. Is it reasonable to search for those resources and access COAs from both a tactical and strategic perspective?

[Danimal16]

Originally Posted by Chocaholic

Please explain this to Admiral Mullen. He disagrees with you. I believe he has served. And his opinion is 180 degrees from yours. Thoughts?

And guess what Mike, I disagree with the Admiral.