Buying my first BMW Motorcycle and looking for advice

[304065]

Ryan thanks for the before and after pics and hope your holidays were excellent.

I bet all the bits removed from the /7, fairing, twin-shaft radio, etc., weighed about 80 pounds. That probably gets you to an all-up wet weight of under 400 pounds, which ought to move along pretty well. Not as well as if you had a pair of GE 404s. . .

[Rot 911]

I’ve been doing a little work on my 1965 R60/2 over the last few weeks. Had a leaking seal in the final drive. I figured as long as I’m in there I might as well clean up a few other things. New brakes, new shocks front and rear. New tires.

[304065]

Beautiful, classic machine. Magneto ignition, kick start only, right?

[Chocaholic]

Originally Posted by 304065

• Acquisition Costs
• 1981 R65 2950 Bill L.
• Shipping 390 Get it Done Transportation
• Sales Tax 261.81 NY State
• Registration 100 NY State
  
  Acquisition costs: $3,701.81
  
  Restoration Costs To Date
  
• Bag Mount Hardware 21.18 Various Bel-Metric
• Fuel Hose 17.81 Various Bel-Metric
• Battery Cables 16.78 30in/9in Battery Cables USA
• Battery Straps/Grommets 90.32 Various Max BMW
• Carb Manifolds, Clamps 130.56 Various BMW Manhattan
• Brake Light Switch/Sleeves 49.61 Various BMW Manhattan
• Front Brake Hose 59.62 Various BMW Manhattan
• Speedo Grommet/Boots 72.94 Various Euro Motor Electric
• Reflectors/Hex Bolt 18.01 Various BMW Manhattan
• Copper Crush Seals 48.71 Various Boxer2Valve
• Brake Pads/Springs 157.41 Various BMW Manhattan
• Left Rear Peg 20.68 Ebay
• Pair Spark Plugs 11.08 W6D Ebay
• Air Box 43.55 Ebay
• Lock Set 43.55 Ebay
• Vintage Plate 38.08 Ebay
• TwinMax 59.88 Ebay
• Tool Tray 27.76 Ebay
• Tachometer 52.1 Ebay
• Luggage Rack Set 162.66 Ebay
• Voltmeter 12.87 Ebay
• Tom Pfeiffer 808 Fork Seals/Tuning
• Voltage Regulator 17.41 Amazon
• Resistor 5.74 Amazon
• Pressure Gauge/Brake Lube 34.34 Amazon
• LED Bulbs 11.96 Amazon
• LED Bulbs 26.1 Amazon
• Liqui Moly Gear Lube 9.8 Amazon
• Oil Filter and Recycle Jugs 38.92 Amazon
• Battery 44.63 Amazon
• Syringe for Oil Change 14.99 Amazon
• Oil Beaker/ Fuel Filter 15.36 Amazon
• Air Filter/Degreaser 41.88 Amazon
• License Plate Screws/Phone Clamp 56.6 Amazon
• Punch for Brakes 4.85 Amazon
• Thread Pitch Gauge 9.79 Amazon
• Bike Lock 35.99 Amazon
• Brake Bolts/Tap 52.35 McMaster
• Brake Squeal Pads/Ball Head Hex 17.79 McMaster
• Rotor, Diode Board, Rotor Removal Tool, Ignition Module, Coil $500 Euro Motor Electric
  
  Total to date $6,603.47
  
  

One mans opinion. Remove the $’s from your list. It serves no value other than to depress you as these endeavors are never good for the pocket book. It’s a labor of love and a rewarding hobby. Why tarnish it with reality?

[304065]

Mike, think of it as a trail of bread crumbs for those who will come after me,

Is the bike worth $6,603.47 today? Not remotely. But like most of my aircooled projects, I'm not in it to make a return. . .the psychic reward of hearing that flat twin pop-pop-pop down the road is all the reward I need.

New Projects On Tap

Timing Chain replacement
Cerakote timing cover, front cover, airbox
New Exhaust System
Metzelers
Restore Instruments

Stay tuned for winter projects!

[304065]

Timing Chain and all associated bits $165 from the dealer (with 15% off)
Exhaust Nuts, Exhaust gaskets, Front Crossover Pipe and plugs for the SLS system $173
Cycle Works bearing/sprocket Puller + torque extension for 12 point driveshaft nuts $185
Stainless hardware for crossover tubes fore and aft $8

The gentle reader will recall that I took a grinding disc to the front crossover tube to get the timing chain housing off the front of the motor. On one end of the tube there was no clamp, it had rusted off, and on the other end was a stalagmite of rust. So that needed to be replaced anyway.

The issue with the exhaust nuts on an airhead (as Kurt and others here can tell you) is that over time they corrode in place. I have the special wrench for the finned nuts, but truthfully, I don't expect them to budge, given the history of deferred maintenance '477 enjoyed. So using the same grinding disc I'm going to carefully slit the nuts and remove them with a cold chisel WITHOUT damaging the threads on the cylinder heads (he said).

So that necessitated new exhaust nuts.

It gets better. Once the exhaust nuts come off, then the pipes can come off. I am pretty sure that the headers can be saved, and they should polish up acceptably. The left pipe looks like it was used as a sledgehammer, and the right one has a pretty good dent in it as well as a worm clamp instead of the Factory item. So a replacement set of mufflers may be in the future.

But once the pipes are off, there's the small matter of the right jug leaking down 19% between the intake, exhaust and rings. So once the pipes are off, the only thing holding the head on is removal of the rockers and the head stud nuts.

But once the head is off, it would make sense to pull out the pushrods, lift the cylinder off the engine and replace the pushrod tube seals, which are badly leaking.

At that point it will require discipline to STOP. . . and NOT take the logical next step, which would be to remove the jugs, unfasten the rod bolts and:

Replace Rod bearings
Replace Rod bolts (these are torque-to-yield type)
Inspect small end bushing for wear and check rod for twist
Inspect piston for wear
Hone cylinder with red scotchbrite and engine oil (same as on a 72- 911 motor)
Replace rings
Replace cylinder base gasket

Then whatever needs to be done to the head, can be done. If the valves are obviously burned then it makes sense to send both heads off to Ted Porter's shop for a valve job.

And THAT, my friends, is how they get ya! You start off with the best of intentions and end up with parts all over the country!

Stay tuned as parts come in. . .

[304065]

"I can't stop. . ." - Flux Pavillion







I breathed a sigh of relief here because the R65/R45 lifters are unique (the pushrod runs inside them to account for the shorter cylinders) and they are NLA. These were pristine, they are staying!





It seems that a piece of FOD got in the bearing at some point and scored it. And the darker area of wear at the edge of the bearing is 0.02mm more worn than the center. The standard bearings are $27 each from the dealer, which seems expensive, but I am not going back in there, the single use rod bolts are $8 each so that is $16 to take a look in a few thousand miles, no thanks.

[304065]

More teardown photos









There are deep pits, probably caused by corrosion and then the engine being turned over. The ring will swipe against these, I cannot imagine that is good for the ring. This cylinder will make a nice pencil holder.




The proximate cause of this teardown was a 19% leakdown in this jug. I am going to de-carbon the head then disassemble and measure the valve stem diameter, valve to guide play, overall valve length and the valve margin remaining on the face. If any of those items are out of spec, or there is any damage to valve margin or the seat, the head will be rebuilt. If not, the valve will be lapped and put back into service.

[brainz01]

I miss my old airhead. Those bikes are pretty simple and so satisfying to work on.

I got my 12 year old a model R90S engine for Christmas. It was fun putting it together. Not much difference from the real thing except it was smaller and made out of clear plastic. I think the gearbox was my favorite part - - I'd never taken my real one apart so it was fun to see how it all worked.

I didn't care for the brakes on the real bike. Brakes have come a long way in 40 years. But the rest of the package was mechanical bliss.

[Ryan_Cunningham]

Originally Posted by brainz01

I didn't care for the brakes on the real bike. Brakes have come a long way in 40 years. But the rest of the package was mechanical bliss.

I'm with you there. The single piston, single disc front brake and rear drum leaves a lot to be desired.

[Ryan_Cunningham]

Originally Posted by 304065

Ryan thanks for the before and after pics and hope your holidays were excellent.

I bet all the bits removed from the /7, fairing, twin-shaft radio, etc., weighed about 80 pounds. That probably gets you to an all-up wet weight of under 400 pounds, which ought to move along pretty well. Not as well as if you had a pair of GE 404s. . .

Sorry for the late reply, just saw this.

She moves around alright. My most recent motorcycles consisted of a KTM RC8R and a Ducati 1198 so it's hard to think of this little guy as being quick. He's got more character though.

[brainz01]

Originally Posted by Ryan_Cunningham

I'm with you there. The single piston, single disc front brake and rear drum leaves a lot to be desired.

Yep, the single front disc really sucked. The twin setup on the later bikes was marginally better. Still not great.

And don't forget the bowden cable operated master cylinder under the tank which didn't help with brake feel or lever effort...

The whole system on the early airheads was pretty weak.

[304065]

Measuring bearing shell. Ball tip on micrometer is 4.5mm diameter.

[304065]

Update:

Got the carbon removed from the head by soaking it in undiluted simple green for a few hours. That was enough to soften it and I was able to scrape it off with a wooden scraper.

Intake valve stem measured in spec as did the exhaust at right around 6.95mm. The tolerance spec is 6.96-.0015 or 6.958mm minimum. The ID of the guide measured up with a small hole gauge at 7.00mm. The spec for the gauge ID is 7 H 7, which is an ISO spec for a reamer size (the one you would use to ream the guide to final size) and equates to 7 to 7.015mm. So that is a valve stem clearance of (7.00-6.95= 0.05mm) where the wear limit is 0.1mm.

I also took a close look at the seats, there were a few spots either of carbon buildup or microwelding from seat to valve. I decided to lap the valve to restore the contact area. I did this with a conventional suction cup tool and some permatex lapping compound, and it only took about 10 oscillations of the tool to provide me with a consistent solid gray band all the way around the valve, about 1/8" wide.

I did thoughtfully consider sending the head to either Ted Porter or Max BMW to have the seat replaced, valve replaced and the head resurfaced at a cost of $750 per set of heads. However, after consultation with a long-time motorcycle racer, aviation mechanic and professional Porsche race crew member, I determined that the initial course of action would be as above. The valve isn't going to fail catastrophically as a result of any of these measures. The conditions for operation will be:

1) Leakdown test after initial break-in of 5% or better; and
2) Valve adjustment within specifications at 500 miles post-reassembly.

The early 80s airheads suffer from a condition known as "valve recession" by which the seats erode and the valve eventually becomes flush with the surface of the combustion chamber. This is evidenced by the clearance closing up over time. So it is possible to measure the clearance with a go/no-go gage at the valve adjustment interval to see what is happening.

A replacement cylinder arrives tomorrow; I will look at it and evaluate whether the pushrod tubes should be changed before installing on the bike. The existing cylinder with the deep pits has pristine pushrod tubes, so it would be a question of heating the heads and removing the tubes with a mandrel designed for that purpose, then reinstalling the good set in the good head.

So the parts tab for this will look like:

Rod Bolts
Rod Bearings
Cylinder o-rings (one large and two small)
Piston Rings
Valve Keepers (should always be changed as the valve rotates within these and they are cheap)
Head Gasket
Valve Cover Gasket

In the process of removing the head I had to take off the exhaust. Unfortunately for me, some PO had welded the left muffler to the left header and actually welded a sleeve around the left muffler to repair the rust. So the left header was unusable, and I had to cut through the rear crossover tube to get it apart. I found a used set of both headers and both crossover tubes in good shape; I am considering sending these out for Jet-hot coating prior to reassembly. New headers are $130 each but they are chrome, which will blue from the heat over time, whereas the ceramic coating may fare better according to those who have done it, and the all-in cost will be lower.

Stay tuned

[304065]

And, late spring update!

"That which is worth doing, is worth over-doing." -Anyonymous

Rarely before has that axiom been so true as on this R65 project. . . in addition to the head work mentioned above, I did the following projects this winter.

Bought new Nikasil cylinder from eBay, around $120
Stainless pushrod tubes and new pushrod seals
New exhaust valve, 4 new keepers for intake and exhaust
New head gasket and cylinder base o-rings.

That took care of the head. As mentioned way above, I also did the timing chain, crank sprocket and the rest of the timing chain parts like both tensioner rails, the tensioner piston and the spring. Unlike the later 911 motors, chain tension is set by a helical spring acting on a metal piston which pushes on a metal tensioner with a plastic face. But it works well enough in this application.

"While I was in there" I also decided that the pipes were absolutely trashed, which is where they went. Siebenrock has commissioned new exhausts in stainless steel from a manufacturer out of Italy, so I sourced a set of those and they are both visually and sonically appealing. (There was a set of NOS Zeuna available on eBay but I decided to leave those to a "restorer.")

The headers were sent to Jet-Hot for their 1300 coating in silver. They claim all kinds of benefits for this coating, in addition to reduced pipe temperature it will evidently improve your LDL cholesterol and regrow hair, but it looks nice enough and won't turn blue with heat like a set of new headers will.

Shaun at Tru6 contributed to the project- Cerakote on the timing chest, starter cover, battery box and airbox, with clear cerakote on the front cover. I can't say enough positive things about the quality and attention to detail that Shaun's team puts into the work-- and the Cerakote will be much more durable than powder and thinner besides. The coating was removed from the fins and the B M W script as original.

Once I got it back together there was a little fiddling to get it started-- this bike, being an '81, has the '81- hall effect sensor in the ATU (also called the "bean can.") As such, you can't use a test light to set the static timing the way you could with the "points in a can" version.

The ATU has two ears on it that capture some short allen screws, you can rotate the ATU clockwise or counterclockwise to set the timing. Since the camshaft turns clockwise as viewed from the front, if you rotate the ATU clockwise, you are retarding the timing toward OT (top dead center). Likewise if you rotate it counterclockwise, you are advancing the timing away from OT.

I put a zip-tie to hold the clutch in and used the starter to crank the engine until I could see the "S" or "Spätzündung" (retarded ignition) mark in the timing window. This was enough to get the engine to start. I then let it warm up and revved it to around 3500, and could see the "Z" (Zündung, ignition) mark in the window. That took care of both ends of the timing, and the engine started right up.

I ran it for a bit then adjusted the valves again. The right exhaust rocker is still axially loose and making noise, I need to put a c-clamp on it with some spacers to tighten up the clearance which should quiet it down a bit.

Also over the winter I sourced a good R45 original seat from Germany. The tail trim I had was from a '79- bike so it fits but it's not quite right-- fortunately the part is still available from BMW in Germany and wasn't that expensive with my discount from my buddy at the BMW dealer, so that will be installed later in the summer.

The side stand had been drilled out by the PO to accomodate an SAE bolt, so I found the later retrofit kit for the 81- side stand and installed it with new springs. I am a big fan of the Factory's auto-retracting side stand for safety reasons.

[Seahawk]

The results are fantastic.

Well done!

[otto_kretschmer]

Originally Posted by Dan J

John
Wish you posted this last week I just sold/gave away my 77 R100s super perfect, completely gone
through
While I loved the bike, I had it for 10 years, I never rode it for 2 reason's, 1) Ancient brakes dual discs but it still didn't stop for schite and 2) I hate carbs (bing in this case) they leak, they surge, they're never perfect.
My daily rider now is a R1150r which is cheap as dirt, reliable as an anvil
run's and stops perfect
Hope you find what works for you

oh boy...

if you think the dual discs are bad then you must have never rode a /5 with drums

[svandamme]

+1

[Superman]

VERY nice! Love the color.

[304065]

Thank you Gents, this is a crowd that knows its machinery so the praise is certainly appreciated.

Like the Winchester House, the construction will continue! This bike needs tires: the Shinko's on it now are eleven years old, and while they still display the molding sprue and aren't dry-rotted, I just don't do eleven year old tires. A set of Metzeler Block C in 3.25 and 4.00 x 18 with Heidenau tubes is in the mail.

Then there is the matter of the swing arm boot which is cracked. This will necessitate removing the rear wheel and swing arm. The swing arm itself should get cerakote and the final drive seal was leaking diff oil onto the rear tire this winter when the temps were low. And the neutral switch will finally get fixed.

I was going to tackle all these items but it would have meant going even deeper at a time when I was already pretty deep in the bike. As it was, this took half a day to disassemble and the better part of four solid days spread over three months to put back together.

The good news is I have joined a bike club here in town that has a proper lift, tools, wash rack etc., and a community of like-minded enthusiasts to urge me along. . .