Observation: Bring-A-Trailer vs eBay vs ...

[lgb240]

A used car is a used car and anyone purchasing one needs to do their due diligence to buy a good one regardless of the forum used to facilitate the sale. A glossy set of pictures on line doesn't mean the car is good. I've witnessed a local car advertised on BAT that photograph well, but, knowing and seeing the car in person, knew that it was poorly restored and went for way more than it should have. Not only that, comments from people that really don't know what they're talking about feed miss information for buyers to bid with a false sense of security. Dont expect the website to vet the vehicles...They only care that the vehicle is interesting enough to generate traffic on their site.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by widebody911

I really want an xke.

You must hate your money. Oh well, not much worse than walking in a pool hall & claiming you're willing to play anybody for big money..

In the E type favor...Henry Manny writing for R&T when it first appeared, dubbed it "the greatest crumpet collector..."

[MBAtarga]

A buddy of mine bought a nice condition red convertable, tan interior within a year of when I bought my SC - so this was 18 years ago. He still owns it- just drives it periodically. I do know he has been taking it to an older gentleman mechanic that knows them well. Last year we were talking and I asked about insurance. He mentioned he had just renewed his policy and got an appraisal for it. He paid $45k for it - and it was appraised at $150k.

[jhynesrockmtn]

I found my 356 on BAT. I lurked for a long time. I knew I wouldn't buy a car sight unseen however. One day scrolling through I saw one that ticked my boxes. Had a rebuilt 912 engine in it with the original engine rebuilt and pickled. New paint, rust repair and mechanicals refreshed in the mid 2000's. Two long term owners and a lot of records. COA. It was a no sale at about 10k less than I assumed it was worth and the BAT commenters who really knew their stuff agreed. I found the owner on the 356 registry and a few months later it is in my garage.

[slow&rusty]

I recently had an extremely poor experience with Doug Demuro's Cars and Bids website.

I submitted my beautiful 5 speed Porsche 928 S4 and have over $20k in receipts of work done in the past 3 years from full interior refurb, repainted in Guards Red and everything mechanical gone through.

Cars and Bids were extremely excited to list my 928 as it would have been their first 928 and one that is in excellent condition...however they would not budge on the Reserve at $15k as they set the Reserve not the seller. I asked "So what happens if the right bidders aren't in the room when the hammer drops and the high bid is $15,001 ??", their response was "Then you're obligated to sell the car for $15,001"

Based on this it certainly feels like Cars and Bids are manipulating sellers to score a sale and also a positive data sell point. I am surprised that a site owned by Doug Demuro focused on these specialty vehicles does not have a higher degree of understanding.

[lgb240]

Originally Posted by slow&rusty

I recently had an extremely poor experience with Doug Demuro's Cars and Bids website.

I submitted my beautiful 5 speed Porsche 928 S4 and have over $20k in receipts of work done in the past 3 years from full interior refurb, repainted in Guards Red and everything mechanical gone through.

Cars and Bids were extremely excited to list my 928 as it would have been their first 928 and one that is in excellent condition...however they would not budge on the Reserve at $15k as they set the Reserve not the seller. I asked "So what happens if the right bidders aren't in the room when the hammer drops and the high bid is $15,001 ??", their response was "Then you're obligated to sell the car for $15,001"

Based on this it certainly feels like Cars and Bids are manipulating sellers to score a sale and also a positive data sell point. I am surprised that a site owned by Doug Demuro focused on these specialty vehicles does not have a higher degree of understanding.

The site is there to make money. Doug understands this perfectly. Your vehicle is his product. He wants it to sell so he and his site benefits. No one will use an auction site that has a low percentage of sales stats. Your low reserve means product moves. BAT does the same thing....A friend had the same experience as you. They wanted a give away reserve, he refused, and sold it privately for his asking.

[slow&rusty]

Originally Posted by lgb240

The site is there to make money. Doug understands this perfectly. Your vehicle is his product. He wants it to sell so he and his site benefits. No one will use an auction site that has a low percentage of sales stats. Your low reserve means product moves. BAT does the same thing....A friend had the same experience as you. They wanted a give away reserve, he refused, and sold it privately for his asking.

I understand all that and get it, its all about making money and moving widgets but without any care to the thousands of dollars AND hours that go into these cars, it must be nice to just sit back and carte blanche set a stupid low reserve just to make a few dollars and look "good" in the eyes of their investors. BaT lets you (the seller) set the Reserve (same with eBay).

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by slow&rusty

I am surprised that a site owned by Doug Demuro focused on these specialty vehicles does not have a higher degree of understanding.

Oh I'm sure they understand, but the desire to make $$$$ is greater than that. The commission on a low-reserve sale is greater than that on a high-reserve no-sale.

[Sarc]

Originally Posted by slow&rusty

BaT lets you (the seller) set the Reserve

Actually, BaT will "let you" set the reserve if they agree with your requested number.

While a $15k reserve on an S4 seems reasonable on a site with a dedicated 928 following, a seller that submits a (insert old 'merican car here) with a 1999-esque reserve will likely be required to come down a notch or 5.

[slow&rusty]

Greed....its what makes the world spin.

[slow&rusty]

Originally Posted by Sarc

Actually, BaT will "let you" set the reserve if they agree with your requested number.

While a $15k reserve on an S4 seems reasonable on a site with a dedicated 928 following, a seller that submits a (insert old 'merican car here) with a 1999-esque reserve will likely be required to come down a notch or 5.

$15k for a top notch 928 S4 MANUAL (yes 3 pedals and only 10% of total production) is unreasonable.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by slow&rusty

$15k for a top notch 928 S4 MANUAL (yes 3 pedals and only 10% of total production) is unreasonable.

I’d buy it!

Agreed that BaT is no better, they pushed for a ridiculously low reserve with two 986S and my 911SC cab. I sold my SC for almost 50% more than what they claimed the car was worth.

I like BaT for car porn but not much more. I think the comments lure people into a false sense of security and they tend to overspend. There are a lot of knowledgeable people on that site but ultimately they are judging cars based on photos, and photos can hide a LOT. I’ve read multiple horror stories from people buying signs unseen on BaT, which to be fair is a risk at any auction.

[1990C4S]

If Doug's business model is broken he won't survive. But BAT does the same thing, although they would set the 928 reserve more like $22k from my friends experience. He also thought the reserve was low.

Regardless, it appears Doug's site is not the right place for your particular car. There are lots of other places to sell it. Ebay gets lots of eyeballs, and you set the reserve.

Lots of cars 'almost' sell on these sites, then a subsequent private deal gets done. You can see how they would not be happy with that outcome.

[Sarc]

Originally Posted by slow&rusty

$15k for a top notch 928 S4 MANUAL (yes 3 pedals and only 10% of total production) is unreasonable.

I just used $15k as a hypothetical number.

My point was that seller's do not set the reserves on BaT, or any of these newer platforms. Unless the requested reserve is in alignment with their thinking, the seller will likely have to come down a bit.

Did you go through with listing the car with CaB? Did you not consider BaT?

[Deschodt]

I had to fight BaT on a reasonable reserve price of my Alfa too... And as mentioned above, it's rather funny how "in touch" they are when negociating listing your car, but once the sale is done you no longer exist to them - no help at all and zero vetting of the buyer... Not even a reply to emails, nothing... IMO you owe them nothing.

Considering how buyers flake out of sales on those sites (relistings are pretty common) without consequences, I'd be shocked if Cars and Bids could FORCE you to sell the car for the hypothetical 15K. I mean even you could shill bid it to your true reserve, or flat out refuse to sell and you're out ...a screen name, you can use you wife's next time... Those sites are just a way to put people in contact... then all bets are off.

I'm back to my earlier comment of too much visibility on these sites: great for selling - not so much for buying.

[onewhippedpuppy]

I’ve always found it unfair that BaT won’t re-list the car if the buyer flakes out.

Personally I’ve sold the most cars on EBay, though technically never actually sold a car on EBay. I’ve always had people contact me based on the ad and then we complete the deal outside of the site. I’ve also never had good luck with the auction format, I just do firm price listings.

[slow&rusty]

I told Cars and Bid to retract my listing for my 928 and they they responded by saying the following (quoting verbatim):

"Hi Yasin! We are not attempting to manipulate you -- we are simply offering a reserve price which you can or cannot accept. If you choose not to accept it, there are many websites that will let you set your own asking price for a sale! We recommend choosing one of those if our reserve is not acceptable. There's no need to get upset; sometimes reserve prices are not agreed upon and that's totally OK. Let us know if you change your mind."

I'm not interested in listing my 928 on BaT.

I might give eBay a shot as I agree with Matt's approach and using it to actually market the car.

Oh...and this is the $15k Porsche 928

[speeder]

Looks nice. Why wouldn’t you want to list it on BaT, (assuming they would accept it and agree on a reserve w you)? Everything goes for too much there and buyers flaking are rare because the winning bidder is committed to the tune of 5% of bid amount when they hit the *bid* button.

They are a curated site, though and can be picky at times w submissions. Since the site was recently sold, I think they are going to be less picky and more greedy, i.e. accept more submissions. How many miles on the 928? I’ll admit that I don’t follow those.

[racer]

Is there a "new" BAT out there?

I loved the older "grass roots" style of BAT.. Finding the weirdo cars and car stories. I don't see those anymore. I found a few sweet cars on CL just this morning and thought "these are the kinds of things BAT used to post!"

Now on BAT all I see is glossy auctions of cars I like/love and am nostalgic for but won't buy due to their perceived overpriced status. Ugh..

[Deschodt]

Originally Posted by racer

Is there a "new" BAT out there?

I loved the older "grass roots" style of BAT.. .

Cars N bids (Doug DeMuro) is fairly new but only for modern classics (80s +)... Hemmings has auctions too...

I agree with you, I miss the old days of BaT and you will only find that on CL now if you are *very* patient. BaT is very polished nowadays and and probably will trend towards more $ making since they've been sold (and lower reserves, if they even keep reserves)... If you listen to various podcasts from the collector world, you'll know that lots of high end collectors like Jerry Seinfeld and many many more are on there and you will probably not outbid him or a Chinese billionaire that decided he needs a collection - hence my point that BaT's popularity worldwide today makes it very unlikely you will ever find a deal there anymore... Statistically there will be someone richer than you or stupider than you willing to pay more any given day. And it's also making it less likely local brand clubs owners will sell on their club sites instead of maximizing profits on BaT. Hell, *I* did it - I used BaT and made at least 20% more selling my car there than I would have ever thought of asking on a local club ad... It's ironic that sites like BaT helped make the hobby more popular and at the same time are shutting regular folks out of it... I have no answers for that, we're left with estate sales and dumb luck for decent deals...