50 Years of Fear and Loathing

[Jims5543]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

its really bizzare reading some of these comments, from folks i know from PARF about fear and loathing. and while i get this isnt PARF, i don't think its actually possible to separate something like fear and loathing from its politics, because its entire commentary is political.

some of you more conservative posters, what does fear and loathing mean to you, and why do you like it? what is attractive about it?

What do you think a conservative is?

[Jims5543]

Originally Posted by tabs

In 1972 Hunter was on the campaign trail...writing for Rolling Stone..the resulting book was rather good.

After McGovern picked Eagleton for his VP some of the Dem Party big wigs were having dinner in a NYC restaurant when Hunter comes in loudly saying Eagleton was having a fit in the back room...needless to say that created a bit of consternation among the Dem big wigs... Soon after that Eagleton was nixed, and Shriver took his place...

Hunter was on the Muskie campaign train in 72 when he had his famous moment of tears..he might of been the one who asked the question...?

I have Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail on the shelf, never read it purchased it to read and never go to it. I will one day, this thread makes me want to re-read Vegas now. I wish I had the time.

[MRM]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

i mean, i have a hard time separating an obviously political thing from its obvious politics. yup.

so you can just seperate off all the politics and just be entertained by it? how does that work? did you watch the clip i posted? all the jokes (presumably the entertaining parts) are about how mainstream white america doesn't understand anything, and can't understand anything, and still feels hypocritically superior in its judgement. thats the joke. it also has a side of making fun of cops, so thats great for the back the blue types, mocking cops is kinda a running gag throughout the entire book/movie really.

what is funny/entertaining about the above posted cut from fear and loathing for a conservative?

There are several things for a conservative to appreciate in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. The first and foremost of which is, the absolutely crystal clear sanity of taking your personal attorney with you at all times and following his legal opinions as all manner of shenanigans occur. To paraphrase Dr. Gonzo, as your attorney, I highly recommend you to take your attorney with you and follow his advice whenever you decide to make a public spectacle of yourself. If for no other reason than it will be fun for your lawyer to ride along, and your lawyer's entertainment is paramount.

Second, HST was a libertarian. Libertarians and conservatives are close cousins, although there are lines which we (and Walter Lebowski) do not cross.

Third, the stories in Fear and Loathing are all outrageous to the point of parody, but no one is ever really hurt. Hunter does all kinds of crazy stunts, all of which are hilarious from his (and the reader's) point of view, but no real person gets physically injured. A lot of property gets destroyed, but only in a way that it's cheap and easy to replace, and nothing happens that can't get cleaned up with a bit of money, an apology, and a quick coat of paint.

Fourth, he's funny. Politics aside, HST is pure comedy gold. If you can't laugh at humor when humor is funny, you're wound too tight.

Fifth, HST was an individualist. Conservatives believe in personal freedom and liberty as the cornerstone to our political beliefs. No one was more into personal liberty and freedom than HST.

And finally, it's the language, dude. Robert Penn Warren perfected long form stream of consciousness prose in All the King's Men, but HST took that to the (il)logical extreme and then put an exclamation mark on it.

“We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a saltshaker half-full of cocaine, and a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers... Also, a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether, and two dozen amyls. Not that we needed all that for the trip, but once you get locked into a serious drug collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can.”

Robert Penn Warren can only dream of prose like that.

Oh, and by the way, HST's ramblings are made all the more palatable with the knowledge that he's writing a cartoon, like Tarantino filming gore, and that HST actually consumed nothing more potent than untold cases of Wild Turkey as he was refining his drafts over years' of hard labor. The drugs and antisocial behavior were a metaphor, not an aspiration.

But late at night, we can all dream of what could be if we took to the freeway at 3 am in a rented Chevy convertible, loaded down with illicit substances, accompanied by a truth-speaking Samoan lawyer as we race toward our date with infamy. . .

I suspect that upon successful completion of our odyssey we would be met by a mythical figure who bears a striking resemblance to . . . TAB's.

Tab's relationship to HST, Vegas, and Garry Trudeau have never been fully explained. As it should be. Some mysteries should remain mysterious.

[herr_oberst]

Ralph Steadman. I know he's not everyone's cup of tea, but I was intrigued from an early age by this style of illustration. Fear and Loathing was my introduction to him and I've been a fan ever since.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by MRM

There are several things for a conservative to appreciate in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. The first and foremost of which is, the absolutely crystal clear sanity of taking your personal attorney with you at all times and following his legal opinions as all manner of shenanigans occur. To paraphrase Dr. Gonzo, as your attorney, I highly recommend you to take your attorney with you and follow his advice whenever you decide to make a public spectacle of yourself. If for no other reason than it will be fun for your lawyer to ride along, and your lawyer's entertainment is paramount.

Second, HST was a libertarian. Libertarians and conservatives are close cousins, although there are lines which we (and Walter Lebowski) do not cross.

Third, the stories in Fear and Loathing are all outrageous to the point of parody, but no one is ever really hurt. Hunter does all kinds of crazy stunts, all of which are hilarious from his (and the reader's) point of view, but no real person gets physically injured. A lot of property gets destroyed, but only in a way that it's cheap and easy to replace, and nothing happens that can't get cleaned up with a bit of money, an apology, and a quick coat of paint.

Fourth, he's funny. Politics aside, HST is pure comedy gold. If you can't laugh at humor when humor is funny, you're wound too tight.

Fifth, HST was an individualist. Conservatives believe in personal freedom and liberty as the cornerstone to our political beliefs. No one was more into personal liberty and freedom than HST.

And finally, it's the language, dude. Robert Penn Warren perfected long form stream of consciousness prose in All the King's Men, but HST took that to the (il)logical extreme and then put an exclamation mark on it.

“We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a saltshaker half-full of cocaine, and a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers... Also, a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether, and two dozen amyls. Not that we needed all that for the trip, but once you get locked into a serious drug collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can.”

Robert Penn Warren can only dream of prose like that.

Oh, and by the way, HST's ramblings are made all the more palatable with the knowledge that he's writing a cartoon, like Tarantino filming gore, and that HST actually consumed nothing more potent than untold cases of Wild Turkey as he was refining his drafts over years' of hard labor. The drugs and antisocial behavior were a metaphor, not an aspiration.

But late at night, we can all dream of what could be if we took to the freeway at 3 am in a rented Chevy convertible, loaded down with illicit substances, accompanied by a truth-speaking Samoan lawyer as we race toward our date with infamy. . .

I suspect that upon successful completion of our odyssey we would be met by a mythical figure who bears a striking resemblance to . . . TAB's.

Tab's relationship to HST, Vegas, and Garry Trudeau have never been fully explained. As it should be. Some mysteries should remain mysterious.

i dont really have any commentary on #1. other than the whole "his lawyer" this is basically a joke. at the expense of rich *******s who actually do walk around with lawyers. like thats the joke. thats the gag. thats why its funny.

#2: He hated conservatives, and the folks who call themselves libertarians today. he was an actual libertarian, nothing like 99% of self-claiming libertarians today. hes often quoted as saying the worst human ever was nixon, and said similar things about trump (of course this was pre-trump presidency).

#3: You do understand that its not parody right? nothing in the book is parody. in fact, the drug effects are rather toned down IMO.

#4: His jokes are either aimed at conservatives directly, or liberals who are mainstream enough so as to make distinction between them is pointless. the punchline is always the failure of middle american culture to understand anything besides consumerism, purity, and authority.

#5: conservatives don't believe in personal liberty. thats why all the **** HST does is illegal ... because conservatives don't think you should be able to do it. who do you think made all those drugs illegal? who do you think supports the cops?

finally: HST did a LOT more than drink. dunno what your smoking, but please, pass it over.



fear and loathing is a pretty ****ing brutal commentary on the failure of mainstream american culture (dominated by conservatism) to understand, pretty much anything about anything. thats why my favorite scene is the one i linked. the punchline is cops are terrible, have no understanding of what they are trying to police, don't care that they dont know, and sit smugly there being massive hypocrites while they do far worse things than pot to there spouses. hell, he even makes a straight up joke that cops are inherently violent and to not even suggest violence to them because they will kill someone. like, its brilliant, and funny, but it would be insulting to anyone who espouses middle american values. never mind an actual conservative.

i don't really get how someone who spends there entire life vilifying hippy, drug using, sexually deviant, degenerates, and then turning around and thinking THE poster child for being a hippy, drug using, sexual deviant, degenerate is something great and a great writer, and funny.

[MRM]

I think that you don’t understand HST or my post very well.

And as a lawyer, I highly recommend traveling everywhere with competent legal counsel. Don’t leave home without it.

[cockerpunk]

some other fun political facts about HST:

he was wildly pro union. he is quoted as saying the IWW (chicago union) was the only sane and compassionate part us US politics

he pretty much hated capitalism: "coming to view the free enterprise system as the single greatest evil in the history of human savagery." he also had a massive picture of che in his kitchen.

he understood that american society is ultimately white supremacist, he called them "white power structures"

he spend a large amount of time and money organizing the defense of a woman accused and convicted of murdering a cop. i mean he first became famous, and met "his lawyer" while investigating the police murdering a mexican-american anti-war protestor. "his lawyer" was a prominent anti-war organizer.



pretty much nothing about this guy was conservative in really, kinda, any way.

[MRM]

HST would think it hilarious that you read that much into him. He wrote to make money. Period. And he learned to write what sold. And he really didn’t take much drugs until long after Las Vegas. You can look it up.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by MRM

HST would think it hilarious that you read that much into him. He wrote to make money. Period. And he learned to write what sold. And he really didn’t take much drugs until long after Las Vegas. You can look it up.

so your argument boils down basically to "dont think too much about it"

i mean, i guess, if thats how you can compromise your politics with your taste in art. im not here to tell anyone how to live.

but that feeling in the back of your head, thats cognitive dissonance. you can ignore it, sure, but its still there.

[MRM]

No, I think you completely misunderstand HST and I know you completely misunderstand my posts. But that’s ok. Reasonable minds can differ. You read HST your way and enjoy what you think you see and I’ll read him my way. There’s plenty of him to go around.

[Nostril Cheese]

Originally Posted by MRM

There are several things for a conservative to appreciate in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.

A serious question to you and other right wing fans.... Have you ever taken LSD?

I'm not making any judgement either way, but I do think it offers a unique perspective to the book. Certainly did in my case.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Nostril Cheese

A serious question to you and other right wing fans.... Have you ever taken LSD?

I have but I can't read when I do, so...

Just kidding. Oh, and nothing below is directed at you, Cheese, rather the judgemental that know nothing of HST or the time.

I am always surprised at the binary judgements here: Being a fiscal conservative doesn't impact my understanding of differing political points of view, in fact, improves it.

I have written many time here that I am as socially liberal as any Liberal here: Not Progressive, Liberal. I'll take anyone on a political tit-for-tat walk.

So, in 1971 when the Rolling Stone issue above came out, I was 15, soon to be 16. I had two older sisters, the oldest 20 and a whip smart liberal in college in California.

I had a ring-side seat to the whole thing and loved the expression of opinions from both sides...I read Brautigan, Wolfe, the genius Heller, Carlos Castaneda, Updike, Salinger, Bellow, Roth and so many more. I even snuck a few H Robbins books into the mix.

Talent can be read and enjoyed regardless of politics, polemics cannot.

[Nostril Cheese]

Wolfe is my favorite author along with Arthur C. Clarke.. My father had all of those authors in his library along with HST. Read them all.

I would have liked to have seen those days in person.

[bivenator]

Never knew that the consumption of LSD and entertainment shouldn't mix.

HST, I read but it was Vonnegut that blew my ever expanding mind.

The truths that I discovered lead me to be a libertarian in theory and a conservative in practical terms.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Nostril Cheese

I would have liked to have seen those days in person.

And I to have met your Father.

If you haven't, read 'Picture This', by Heller, please do so, and any thing by Vonnegut...beaten to the punch by ^^^

I should have also mention William Goldman, another true writer of merit. Read the 'Princess Bride' a simply incredible book that came out in the same in the time frame HST was writing, 1973. Forget everything you ever knew based on the movie.

I was very lucky as are you.

[gordner]

Everyone here should go take a flying ***k at a rolling donut. Better yet, take a flying ***k at the mooooon

[Nostril Cheese]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

And I to have met your Father.

If you haven't, read 'Picture This', by Heller, please do so, and any thing by Vonnegut...beaten to the punch by ^^^

I should have also mention William Goldman, another true writer of merit. Read the 'Princess Bride' a simply incredible book that came out in the same in the time frame HST was writing, 1973. Forget everything you ever knew based on the movie.

I was very lucky as are you.

Everyone loved my dad. You two would have got along well.

Galapagos is my favorite Vonnegut book.

Just added the other two on my reading list.

[Geneman]

Coming of age in a fascist police state will not be a barrel of fun for anybody, much less for people like me, who are not inclined to suffer Nazis gladly and feel only contempt for the cowardly flag-suckers who would gladly give up their outdated freedom to live for the mess of pottage they have been conned into believing will be freedom from fear.

Hunter S. Thompson

[Jims5543]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

so your argument boils down basically to "dont think too much about it"

i mean, i guess, if that's how you can compromise your politics with your taste in art. I'm not here to tell anyone how to live.

but that feeling in the back of your head, that's cognitive dissonance. you can ignore it, sure, but its still there.

I keep laughing at what appears to be your mind being blown by the fact that a "conservative" can like HST.

Ever stop to think that many people who align conservative regarding politics are very liberal people?

I hate Republicans, I greatly dislike ALL politicians. I hated GW I hated Obama and call them the 1-2 punch that started the destruction of America.

Remember when Hunter ran for mayor? Shaved his head bald so he could call his opponent with short hair a long haired hippy. He ran as an FU to the system.

I like when non politicians run for office and win. Its a big FU to the system man...

[VINMAN]

Was never a huge fan of his , but always liked this clip.