Economics common sense

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Comments like these are what make it sound hate-based:

"Time to encourage people to work instead of freeload."

The subject could be discussed without disparaging a whole segment of the population. There are many reasons businesses are looking for jobs and good reasons people aren't going to work. If you have to pay $10 an hour per child for child care in order to go work at a $15 job it makes sense to stay home and take care of your kid. Taking away the unemployment subsidy isn't going to change that, it's only going to make life harder for the parents.
Unemployment subsidies should be kept in place until schools are open.

Behold! The advent of the single parent household and the societal issues that come along with it. And you're pointing to another issue where parents are using the school system as much for a babysitter as they are for education.

[id10t]

Originally Posted by cabmando

Behold! The advent of the single parent household and the societal issues that come along with it. And you're pointing to another issue where parents are using the school system as much for a babysitter as they are for education.

wife and I had the same issue with her working vs paying someone else to raise our kids. not just single parent homes have this issue.

[rusnak]

So, out here in the "real world", yes paying for child care can be expensive.

But nowhere near $10 per child (?) per hour. I employ a few single moms, and young moms who part of a working couple. Usually it's a combination of grandparents, sitters, or the like until the little ones are old enough to go to school.

The few, maybe 1 out of 15 or so, who prefer to sit at home and take benefits, simply eliminate themselves from the workforce by choice. I don't even try to employ them or entice them away from their couch and PJs. The other 14 prefer to work because they know that I'm still going to be employing them long after their government aid runs out. Any logical person who can work, will choose that path.

My better employees get raises, bonuses, and stuff that they ask for and some that they don't. I automatically give raises based on performance. They don't always have to ask, and I don't wait for them to. Bonuses in cash and in things like a car downpayment, or a Weber BBQ, or a new engine for the vehicle are all creative things that I have done to help my longtime employees. Another intangible is that my employees like being a part of something that is successful and has a happy work environment. We are really a family here.

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by creaturecat

N D has had a labour shortage for many years. long before covid.
hate-based, divisive crap. compliments of Fox News. as usual.

hands up - folks that want to move to N D.

Then why is the state of North Dakota ending their participation in the Federal aid programs? The article states that the relative employment levels are nearing pre-shutdown levels. Did you read the article?

Originally Posted by cstreit

The counterpoint to this is that if basic government benefit is more than wages, perhaps wages aren’t in line with the need. Supply and demand works in both directions. Want help? Pay more.

I don’t know where the balance point is nor will i speculate, but this isn’t a one directional equation.

I think the counterpoint, at least for those here, is to ask how they intend to pay for aid both past-tense and future public assistance, if no one ever goes back to work? Someone has to start paying taxes again. Businesses in most fields are just now getting to break-even levels. They can't be expected to carry the load for everyone else. Remember that these bailout payments are in addition to all of the government employees who were not laid off, and many of whom are supposed to be out working in the field but are "working" from home now instead.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by rusnak

The few, maybe 1 out of 15 or so, who prefer to sit at home and take benefits, simply eliminate themselves from the workforce by choice. I don't even try to employ them or entice them away from their couch and PJs. The other 14 prefer to work because they know that I'm still going to be employing them long after their government aid runs out. Any logical person who can work, will choose that path.

I'm not sure about your ratios, but you're right, there are some people who will do the bare minimum to get by.
I feel it is immoral to not do your best to be productive. But it's more than a moral equation, it's also economics. I don't know how to cost effectively sort them out from the people who are doing their best. There comes a point where it is cheaper to just pay them to lay on their asses and move on.

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I'm not sure about your ratios, but you're right, there are some people who will do the bare minimum to get by.
I feel it is immoral to not do your best to be productive. But it's more than a moral equation, it's also economics. I don't know how to cost effectively sort them out from the people who are doing their best. There comes a point where it is cheaper to just pay them to lay on their asses and move on.

The question of morality is probably beyond my understanding. There are people who are far smarter than me to answer that. But your initial comment about the disparaging term "freeload" I think has merit. I guess I just ignore those who are too lazy to work. I often comment that I employ the unemployable. I take the bottom of the barrel, and give them a vey positive place to have pride in their contributions. It's worked for the past 10 years, and we are still growing.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by id10t

wife and I had the same issue with her working vs paying someone else to raise our kids. not just single parent homes have this issue.

Depending on the cost of living in your area I could see how that could happen. I know in MA where my sis lives, childcare gets pretty spendy.

It's surprising to me that in your line of work that there was an issue. Hell with a degree! I'm telling my youngest to go into babysitting. id10t's make decent money.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by smadsen

Imagine the mom & pop donut shop in Fargo trying to compete wage-wise with the largess of the state and/or Federal government.

Or big corporate.
https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/poverty/526713-mcdonalds-and-walmart-among-companies-with-most-workers-on

One lawsuit will ruin small business. There goes another 600 jobs.
https://www.freep.com/story/entertainment/nightlife/2019/10/25/founders-brewing-detroit-taproom-closed/2453196001/

[cabmandone]

Oh Luuuuuuuuuucy... chew gossum splainin to do
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us-job-openings-soar-to-highest-level-on-record/ar-BB1gC7Gw?ocid=msedgdhp

[masraum]

Originally Posted by stevej37

This guy thought he deserved a bigger slice of the pie.
https://news.yahoo.com/california-man-charged-using-covid-203207657.html

We had a similar wanker in Houston. Prior to our current country home, we lived in an apt in town. I ran into this guy in the elevator (he was visiting someone, he didn't live there) and saw his Lambo Urus in the parking garage several times.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/man-covid-relief-funds-lamborghini-strip-clubs-15458136.php

[thor66]

Originally Posted by cabmando

Behold! The advent of the single parent household and the societal issues that come along with it. And you're pointing to another issue where parents are using the school system as much for a babysitter as they are for education.

should the moms stay home and not work while their kids are in school?

economy benefits when people work, ya know

[Seahawk]

The issue is two fold: Human nature and federal government applying the same cost metric across all States.

I have not done a deep dive on the numbers (no one here has) but if I could have sat on my couch and made more when I was 18 than humping in the heat at a manual labor job, then uh, that would have been a conundrum.

There is simply a segment of our society that seeks the path of least resistance, of maximum gain from minimal effort. Human nature.

Real economists set the lowest unemployment figure between 3 and 4 percent. Below that, the hard core unemployed denizens exist that will never work regardless of cajoling and minimum wage fiddling.

Which leads me to the Federal Government prophylactic application of stimulus benefits (always a stupid idea) to different regions of the country without accounting for regional economic realities. It is a mess.

There is a reason the Feds do not now, nor should they ever, usurp States Rights in setting minimum wage. The differences in State and regional economies are profound.

I am sure all the Economists here will take me to the task.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by thor66

should the moms stay home and not work while their kids are in school?

economy benefits when people work, ya know

Huh???

[id10t]

Originally Posted by thor66

should the moms stay home and not work while their kids are in school?

economy benefits when people work, ya know

What you got? Hours available are 830am to 130pm except Wednesdays and that is 830 until 1145. Throw in a week at Thanksgiving, a week at Spring Break, random 3 and 4 day weekends due to federal holidays or "teacher work days" or snow days/hurricane days. Or days when the kid is sick. Oh, and only from late August to late May/Mid June.

[black73]

Originally Posted by cabmando

Yeah because the democrats have done an OUTSTANDING job of raising people from poverty. (sarc)

This shouldn't be in PARF but naturally some folks just can't help but make EVERYTHING political.

Government programs. policies, actions and the resulting reactions and commentary not Political?

Gotcha. If you believe this, then I have some Porsche parts I need to sell you.

[cabmandone]

Be honest can you point to anything you've ever contributed to a thread that held any value whatsoever? If so please direct us all to it.

[cabmandone]

We're discussing the economic implications behind the actions of government. It's not political in the sense of R & D. The implications don't know politics which is why this thread doesn't belong in PARF and no one should be trying to get it moved there because there are things that should be discussed and won't be if it goes there. Here it can remain generally civil... there? not so much.

[black73]

Pay people a decent wage and they will be lined up around the block for the opportunity.

It's that simple.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by cstreit

The counterpoint to this is that if basic government benefit is more than wages, perhaps wages aren’t in line with the need. Supply and demand works in both directions. Want help? Pay more.

I don’t know where the balance point is nor will i speculate, but this isn’t a one directional equation.

I am a strong supporter of supply and demand, and normally would agree with an argument such as yours.
But when the gubmint artificially manipulates and perverts the system, then true balance is no longer possible.

This is not a wage problem, it is a manipulation and interference problem.
Get the artificial interference out of the way, allow the supply and the demand to balance out, and and wages will find fair equilibrium.

[Racerbvd]

Amazing, the entitlement community doesn't want to work, liberals think people should be paid more than they are worth and no one these days understands what it actually cost to hire and keep employees, easy to see who has never been responsible for a payroll here.
Next week in multiple states across the union, McDonald's workers will walk off the job to demand $15 an hour, these same people who can't get a simple order straight and too stupid to remember last time the pulled this crap, McDonald's fixed part of the problem replaced working with equipment that could do the job without screwing up the order. I remember when minimum wage was $3.35 an hour, I asked the owner what I needed to do to get a raise.
His response

make yourself worth more money

.
Pretty damn simple, and it wasn't long before I earned raises and never looked back.
Remember, most of these are starting jobs, minimum skills deserve minimum wage.
Posted at a local restaurant this weekend.