I’m not sure what your point is, Steve. But the point of pointing a gun at someone is to stop the threat which includes killing them, if necessary.

What seems to be a point of contention here is that some believe that simply because this horrible accident occurred on a movie set, the person who erred should not be held accountable for his own negligence.

IMO, being on a movie set does not relieve a person from their duty to handle a firearm safely. I understand the unique circumstance of there being an armorer on site whose only job is to be sure firearms are handled safely. However, the negligence of the armorer does not absolve everyone else or anyone else of their own duty to safety.

Unfortunately for Baldwin, but perhaps fortunate for everyone else, is that henceforth the time-honored notion will yet again be hammered home that the person who handles a gun is responsible for what happens with it no matter where or when.

I have witnessed more "gun protocol" violations from gun shop workers than I care to recall.... many times handing an unchecked spoon to a totally "unknown" person .... might be their first time holding one too (i.e. stoooipid). I'd bet Higgins has seen it too .... and some cops are the absolute worse when it comes to "horseplay" .... I know that for a fact. Accidents happen, and "my gun protocols" (and Higgins too) are broken every single day .... but it rarely ends in tragedy.... this time it did. The "live round" on the set caused the smoking gun here.... jmho. 4 million in insurance payout .... next!

Another aspect of this incident that confuses me is that somehow because the armorer screwed up royal anybody else’s screw-up is dismissed. Several people screwed this pooch culminating in a dead person. Had any of these persons not screwed up there would not be a dead person.

Who will be found most at fault here?

My cynical guess is whomever has the shallowest pockets.

^^^^ Insurance lawyers will sort it out ... $4 million payout by the companies involved.... next case please.

It’s obvious that everyone wants AB to be liable so badly because he’s been such an outspoken person on everything political including the 2nd amendment. I just don’t think that as an actor he’s liable according to the rules and regulations on the set. As a producer it may be more sticky for him. I just hope that after this tragedy rules change in Hollywood.

Yes. Actors are ‘special’. More special than you or I, correct?

I don’t like Baldwin though I’ve never met him. How can that be? Because he has also never met me yet wants to infringe upon my constitutional right(s) while at the same time wants to hold himself unaccountable for his own negligence and make millions shooting guns for fun and money.

I can guarantee you this, though. Baldwin will NOT STFU about guns.

He's responsible as far as being a producer and indirectly responsible for allowing live rounds on set and hiring inexperienced people. So many safety protocols were violated on that set and he, with his experience as an actor, should have known not to accept a weapon handed to him by someone other than the Armorer without checking it.

But do you look both ways before crossing the showroom floor at your local auto dealership? No, because you don't expect a car to come speeding by. The same as you would never expect live rounds on a film set. (not directed at you Scott, just speaking in general).

As far as the rules changing in Hollywood, we pride ourselves on set safety. I have to carry my "Safety Passport" with me at all times. You can see that "firearm safety" is one of the classes we are required to take.:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1638566681.jpg

Unfortunately this is not industry wide and I don't think it's a requirement in New Mexico. Personally I think that all Armorers and Prop Masters should be required to take extended firearms training and certification from here on out. I'm sure that will happen sooner rather than later.

You make my point. Your emo response towards Baldwin has nothing to do with him being responsible for this tragedy. For the record, I think the guy is a douche but that doesn’t matter.

Oh Gawd... I think any of us who spend as much time as I do around guns has way too many "war stories". As in most things in life, while "familiarity (may not) breed contempt", it certainly can breed lazy inattention. And, well, we both know there is absolutely no room for that around firearms.

And yes, unfortunately, police officers have uniformly been the worst "professionals" I have ever been around when it comes to firearms safety. While they certainly carry them around quite a lot, most of them do not get the practice they should. It's just not in departmental budgets, so the only ones who do are the ones that take it upon themselves. The ones who might be a bit of a gun enthusiast anyway, outside of their professional interests. It's amazing how many of them are not, though, whose only "familiarity" is the department mandated once a year, 20 round or so "qualification". And, well, these guys are smarter and better looking than anyone else in the room, so no one can point out their bad habits... Been there, done that, have the tee shirt (as an NRA Certified Instructor).

So, yeah, almost comical that Alec Baldwin recommends a cop be on site. That would probably only make things worse. But, well, hasn't that been the position of anti-gun Hollywood and others? That only cops can be "safe" around guns? If they only knew...

To be truthful, I've worked on a few productions that required custom made firearms that ended up in the hands of Hollywood's "anti gun crowd". I remember one film that featured some Dinosaurs, we had Holland & Holland make a bespoke side by side elephant gun in 600 Nitro express with beautiful engraving of a Mastodon on one side plate and a T Rex on the other.

When I asked what was going to happen to the gun after filming the Armorer told me it was going to be added to the director's private and rather large gun collection. He was a "Closet Gun Nut" or so I was told.

On another western (that HughR worked on near the end of his career) I had the Armorer from that film Harry in my office and he was on the phone with a Sherrif in Colorado purchasing an antique Winchester lever gun for the star of that film who is known to be mighty liberal.

Every set I’ve ever been on there’s were a couple LAPD motorcycle cops loafing around. They did not look like they wanted the extra responsibility.

The scpa has monitors watching over animal welfare. The nra should offer range safety officers.





And we all know Steven Spielberg is a massive hypocrite douche regarding guns.

I bet that Holland and Holland was a beaut

hmm could that western flick's title rhyme with "zone grainger"?

The H&H was a work of art. I forget how much it cost per round, for some reason close to $50 sticks in my head.

“Zone Grainger”? Hmmm, if they named it that it might have done better at the box office. :)

Well if your point is to dismiss my argument because I am biased against Baldwin, you would be mistaken.

My arguments are valid and stand alone irregardless* of my bias. In addition, at the outset, I have expressed great sympathy and empathy for Baldwin.

He’s ****ed. But he ****ed himself.

Schadenfreude? You bet. And growing. Not only is he trying to evade responsibility, but when he finds out his career is shot, he’s gonna try to use this incident as proof that guns kill people, rally the left for more gun control to infringe on my rights and put himself forward as a victim.

In addition, his recent interview with Stephanuppagus was a shameless preemptive rehabilitation production designed specifically to enable the man to evade responsibility which would not be possible were it not for the complete and total cooperation of the leftist propaganda machine which is so harmful to the country.


*I know, the word would not be found in any proper dictionary

Yep,

The Mouse had to do an SEC filing on a significant stock value loss, or something like that

John Carter?


I’m the only one who liked that movie.

Yeah, depending on how long ago this was, that $50 per round price tag is a little light.

I've had the opportunity to "test" a "Royal Grade" Holland and Holland double in .577 Nitro Express. As is too often the case with rifles of this value (about that of a '67 911 S), the guy who owned it had gotten too old and frail to actually use it by the time he could afford to buy his "dream rifle" and his "dream hunt" on which to use it.

The British bespoke rifle manufacturers adhere to a formula that prescribes the optimum weight for these rifles, by caliber. A .577 is going to go around 14-16 pounds, a .600 even heavier. This is an effort to at least somewhat "tame" the recoil (in my limited experience, it doesn't work...). Recoil from a .577 or .600 is going to run about 125 foot pounds. By way of comparison, a standard weight .30-'06 will get you about 15-18 foot pounds, a 3" magnum 12 gauge goose load about 30 or so.

So, a guy pushing his upper 70's, maybe 150 pounds soaking wet. He's going to carry a 16 pound rifle in 110 degree heat all day, and then fire it competently on game. Uh... how 'bout "no"? I think he actually realized that, but he did want to see it shot. So I was dumb enough to volunteer. I put eight rounds through it, two "pairs", offhand at 50 yards. As one would expect, it was, of course, perfectly regulated. I, on the other hand, wound up somewhat "disregulated" for some time thereafter...

This was probably fifteen years ago. It was factory Kynoch ammunition, which they had just started making again under special order from Holland and Holland. I remember him noting "well, that was $720 worth of ammo..."

Beautiful gun, though. I wonder if it ever actually killed anything. Most don't, but that's a whole 'nother story.

and now Beretta owns Holland and Holland, so at least they will continue, and hopefully retain their high quality.

Anyways, back on subject, I am really curious which star (of the underperforming western) got the lever action--Depp always seemed to be a bit of a rebel, and Hammer is part of the baking soda empire, so I imagine guns were always part of his upbringing:confused:

Another one the Mouse had to take a material write off on.

I loved the Lone Ranger movie. Same for "The Man from U.N.C.L.E." I don't care if other people didn't like them.