Rats

[masraum]

Originally Posted by tabs

size of a pistachio....Norwegian Rats??? That thing will eat a cat for dinner..

I know in my area there are birds of prey...one gave a good fly over a 20 lb Jack Russel that I had one night...the wing span was about 30 inches...

For the past few years there is a solid black cat that likes to come and sit in the bushes in my backyard...I think it's after the birds... If I tap on the window it will get up and move.

What, cats and mice and birds? I'm surprised you aren't all gila monsters, snakes and scorpions.

[ramonesfreak]

I would love a snake like that. I love snakes. We do not have snakes like that here. We have timber rattle snakes in the higher woodland elevations but not in the city and I have yet to see one in 50 years and I have spent a lot of time in the woods...they are about as elusive as the timber wolf

[Jeff Higgins]

I get the impression that you live in a neighborhood, i.e. with neighbors relatively close by. It sounds like your neighbors have been complaining of rat problems as well. This is not just your rat problem, it is a neighborhood rat problem.

There are two kinds of neighbors that contribute to this problem. You have already pointed out one kind - the ones who leave food out for pets or for wildlife. The other kind is you - the kind that provides them a sanctuary in which to live. We have had both kinds in our neighborhood, and the rat problems their behaviors engender. I have had no patience for either and, over the years, have had a few "come to Jesus" discussions with them concerning our shared rat problem.

In short - you owe it to your neighbors to eradicate these vermin from your property. That means killing them. With a vengeance. There are plenty of "pet safe" poisons available - get some and use it until they are gone. Tell your neighbors to do the same, and to quit leaving food out.

The only thing that will rid your property, and your neighborhood of these things is a concerted, cooperative effort from everyone. Don't give them a place to hide - don't be "that guy".

I don't care if you love animals. I do as well. That is not at issue here. You have a responsibility to your neighbors. If you are not up to meeting that responsibility, you have no business living in a neighborhood wherein these kinds of decisions affect others.

Sorry to come on so strong, but this really is the bottom line. They will make neighborhood pets sick. They will make neighborhood kids sick. They love to chew on wiring, with far to many structural fires started in that manner. They simply create too many problems to be able to live with us in harmony. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

Kill them. You have no choice. Then leave poison out, because wherever they came from they will continue to multiply and, eventually, come back to you. This is not a "take care of the problem and forget about it" situation. This is an "and on" situation, where you will need to remain attentive and vigilant. Again, I'm sorry, I know you don't want to hear any of this. Just another one of the many things that suck about "wearing the big boy pants".

[ramonesfreak]

Jeff,

I know all of that. You are correct. I cant argue with any of that.

[ramonesfreak]

---im not ok with the fact that my chipmunk friends are going to get caught up in this though...and squirrels - they too are in and out of the garage

[MikeSid]

I was about to say more or less what Jeff did. Rats are a public health concern. Humans have lived with rats for centuries, but not peacefully. Bubonic and pneumonic plagues, Hantavirus, lice, etc. Rats have cost human lives. While I understand your distaste for killing another living thing, your duty to fellow humans might have to take precedence over that feeling.

You have an ROUS infestation. So unless you live in the fire swamp with flame spurts, it is inconceivable that you would be able to get rid of them without the use of snap traps.

As they say, if you can figure out a method better than the snap trap, the world will beat a pathway to your door.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by ramonesfreak

Jeff,

I know all of that. You are correct. I cant argue with any of that.

Sorry bud, I know this really, really sucks. "Been there, done that". We have had this problem in our neighborhood off and on for over 30 years. It has come in waves, as our little 'hood has gone from quite rural to Suburbia, with tract after tract surrounding us cleared and developed. The rats, of course, seek sanctuary when the loggers and bulldozers start clearing, and off we go once again. No fun at all... Good luck.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by ramonesfreak

---im not ok with the fact that my chipmunk friends are going to get caught up in this though...and squirrels - they too are in and out of the garage

I have had the same concerns. Their habits are, however, different enough that we can target the rats without endangering the squirrels and chipmunks. Put the poison in very difficult to access little cubby holes, inside the building, in its deepest and darkest recesses. Put it up high, on any shelving, tool boxes, etc. The rats will find it. Other critters won't. I even put it up under my back deck, in the support structure, and the squirrels never seem to find it. The rats do. That, and find their burrows, and pour it down those. Even if they hang out in the garage, they will have burrows somewhere near it. That's the best way to target them without endangering desirable wildlife.

[gamin]

Jeff is correct about the diseases rats carry and their need to gnaw on anything handy to keep their lower incisors worn down. I would add that they are nasty critters. They have no control of their bodily functions. They pee and poop almost constantly. You can see the poop easily. You need a good UV flashlight to see the urine trails. Lights out of course. I am not fond of invisible rodent piss all over my house or garage. Rats have no redeeming value except as lab animals.
Rats living high up as in trees are roof (black) rats. Slender and very agile.
Rats living in burrows at ground level are norway rats. Larger than roof rats and lighter in color.

[John Rogers]

We had a bad problem with rats in the crawl space over top of the kitchen, ETC such that they ate the plastic water line to our Jade refrigerator's ice/water system. They tried their best to get inside the frig but fortunately it was very well made! Used those large black plastic glue traps and finally the cat we had at the time decided to kill and eat them! He died and we got a Main Coon and he could catch and eat at least one a day!

He finally died and now we have two all black cats and they eat 3 or 4 each a week. We and our neighbors have very large yards so there are lots of room for them to grow in and my "killers" are a very happy duo.
John

[911 Rod]

What is crueler, keeping the mouse you have in a cage, or killing a rat that has had it comfy in your garage?

[ramonesfreak]

Originally Posted by 911 Rod

What is crueler, keeping the mouse you have in a cage, or killing a rat that has had it comfy in your garage?

I dont feel good about the mouse being in a cage. But, by the time it was old enough to live on its own, I felt that had become too dependent on me to live in the wild. I have tried to give it a good life...2 blue berries every night, toys, etc...sure, it was a lonely life but I tried to do the right thing

[rusnak]

[deanp]

I get needing to dispatch rats, but secondary rodenticide is a major problem for other wildlife that can and will encounter the dying rats, often dying themselves after ingesting the poisoned rat. Eagles, hawks, falcons, and owls are especially susceptible.

https://www.raptorsarethesolution.org/free-outreach-materials/?fbclid=IwAR31-AzbdOg_oU__015_pVKti9cl4StCXiaPHYTkWrmrDy5G5OEhs9O bF6U

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by deanp

I get needing to dispatch rats, but secondary rodenticide is a major problem for other wildlife that can and will encounter the dying rats, often dying themselves after ingesting the poisoned rat. Eagles, hawks, falcons, and owls are especially susceptible.

https://www.raptorsarethesolution.org/free-outreach-materials/?fbclid=IwAR31-AzbdOg_oU__015_pVKti9cl4StCXiaPHYTkWrmrDy5G5OEhs9O bF6U

That doesn't have to be the case anymore. There are modern rat "poisons" that really aren't poison. Rat-X is a good example. It's essentially just a lot of gluten that swells up inside the rat's digestive tract and dehydrates it since it can no longer absorb water. Nothing that eats a rat that died from ingesting Rat-X (and similar products) is in any danger.

I love raptors, and live in an area unusually blessed with a pretty broad variety of them. We have a mated pair of bald eagles nesting in our neighborhood, and I'm privileged enough to watch them from my back deck as I enjoy a cup of coffee in the morning. Add to that a local abundance of red tailed hawks, a variety of owls, and even ospreys if I'm willing to drive (or ride) less than an hour from my house, and I feel as though I'm in "raptor heaven". I love watching all variety of them.

That said, any website titled "Raptors are the Solution" is not likely to give a very good assessment of the situation. They might be a bit myopic in their view. Just sayin'... A quick read seemed to indicate that they are eager to suggest "solutions" to rat infestations that really aren't, and represent a good deal of work and commitment to get less than fully effective results. Most folks will not put that level of effort and attention into ridding themselves of rats, especially not entire neighborhoods worth of folks. Most are simply not zealots at the level represented by the authors of that website. Sorry. Most want simple, quick, inexpensive solutions that actually work. That means "poison". Good thing is that we now have "poisons" that really aren't, yet they remain quite effective. I use them in good conscience as I watch "our" bald eagles circling overhead.

[deanp]

Yes, there are new 'poisons' that are not lethal to a secondary predator. A person would need to take the time to research and find that particular "poison" as there are still many on the market that are dangerous to other predatory animals. They are all sold on the shelf right next to each other.

I know two raptor rehabbers locally that deal with secondary rodenticide on a regular basis - barred owls, great horned owls, snowy owls, red tail hawks, bald eagles are all species that they see with regularity.

I applaud you for searching out poisons that are effective at the job at hand without secondary poisoning but not everyone will go to the same length. While the website with the references I posted may seem myopic to you, it holds true that there are still poisons on the shelf that affect more than the rodents that need to be eradicated and a need for education on the differences.

[John Rogers]

There are lots of reality shows on TV but NOTHING is as interesting as watching one of your cats play with a rat or gopher or mouse on your living room floor for a couple hours and then watch them eat it, especially the crunch when they eat their head!!!!! Our big male cat will often take the dead mouse and offer it to our PUGS but I don't let them have any.
John

[fintstone]

Poison is generally dangerous for other animals and there is nothing worse than for several to die in the wall of your home and rot.

Making sure there is nothing to eat is helpful to reduce numbers. Raptors, foxes, cats, etc. are all helpful, but the best bet is a rat snake or two. They will eat the young before they get big enough to escape and can go anyplace the mice/rats go. Otherwise, traps are necessary. Most kill instantly. All the above (except poison) is my vote.

If you actually see them moving around in the daylight, you have a very serious infestation. On the farm, we shot those. A good pellet gun or slingshot is quiet and will do the job if you have some skill and don't want to spend on ammunition.

[sc_rufctr]

I hate to say it but I've declared war on rats and mice. I'd rather just leave them alone but my house would get over run in no time flat.

So I use toss packets of poison in key areas and bait traps that other animals can't get into.
- Also lots of rat sack in piles on alloy trays in the roof space seems to work. I check them regularly and top them up as needed.

I'd like to try the ultrasonic options but I don't want something "electrical" always turned on in my roof space.

[Bill Douglas]

Get one of those RAT tests - they're advertised everywhere. And find out for sure.

That way you can sound like a man from the tax department and say "I smell a rat."