How to handle job offer and resignation?
 

This is for Mrs. Lee. I'm never working the man again. She got a job offer last week that was ok, but mostly a lateral move. She asked for more, they met it. Then she asked for more again and they met it. They sent the offer letter today and now she's wondering if she can get her current employer to counter. I think this is playing a risky game, but bear in mind she's from China, where everything gets negotiated down to the last penny. I did this long ago when my mom told me I really needed to give my then current boss a chance to counter an offer I got. I was so sure he couldn't touch it, but I gave him my notice, he asked what I'd need to stay and they gave me a 40% raise on the spot. So it can happen. But what's the safest and more ethical/professional way for Mrs. Lee to handle this?

I'd take the bird in the hand, if it were me. Perhaps she can place herself in a similar position after a time, and then handle the negotiations more timely. But that's just me. I'm not Chinese, and not a gambler.

40% raise, Rick? That's impressive.

Oof! That's a tough one. I think I'd go to the current employer, tell them I appreciate everything they've done for me and that I've received a job offer that exceeds my current compensation. I'd then leave the ball in their court. If they value her as an employee, they'll naturally want to retain her and make an offer. I don't think I'd request that offer.

Has she verbally agreed to the new job offer? Maybe it’s me, but I have a hard time going back on my word. Besides, maybe this new job opens up new doors and experience.

Never stay at a job just for the money unless money was the only reason you were looking to leave in the first place.

This. Also, if the current employer values me so much, why are they paying too little?
On the other side of the coin, what if the new place turns out to be Hades?

Get this. She's signing the offer letter now and, when she sorted through the sent and received emails from this recruiter, it turns out they had spoken seven yrs ago. Mrs. Lee had been at her current job for a year by then, asked for more money and the recruiter went radio silent. Now the recruiter works for the new company making the offer and she's moving mountains to get Mrs. Lee to come aboard. I like Cabmando's suggestion.

But then I would also have a hard time going back on my word if I had accepted an offer already. I've seen people really, really parlay their income in these kinds of negotiations, but, when I was a W2 guy, I didn't want to make enemies. These days I work for myself and am pretty immune from bad past relationships.

From what I overhear of her phone/Zoom/Skype calls on the days when I'm working at home, her company is always a hot mess, she has a new boss she doesn't like and, as it goes in the W2 world, there's politics, turf battles, blame games, etc. Of course, it could be worse at the new place. No way to really know.

Gawd, I'm so happy to be done with that BS. I made more money today than she will make all week and she does pretty well. I can take the rest of the week off or go out and try to really kill it some more. Either way, no one is busting my balls and I only make phone calls I feel like making.

She doesn't like her boss and if she asks for a counter she's painting a target on her back.

Leave.

rjp

Whenever I had a direct report come to me with an ask for a counter offer I always thanked them for their work to date and wished them well. It was my PoV that if they were unhappy then it was time for them to move on. If they're willing to stay just for the money then they can easily go for more money. People come, people go.

So... I'm sort of with you there. Job quality is the most important thing.

But its also rude to your people if you aren't paying them a market rate. Coming to you is a friendly reminder that the compensation is amiss. Folks came to me wanting raises I always did what I could.

I've got a friend stuck with a compensation scale where he can't compete with current insanity and it sucks for him he's losing his best people.

I don't know the situation with current job. I always took the job that was the most interesting with the best people, and I always felt like I was paid too much. Money comes second after quality of life.

+1

With her current company for 8 years... perhaps reason to choose a new adventure?

Ethics aside, even with a signed offer letter Mrs. Lee can basically do whatever she wants including recanting later. There is little recourse and it is not that uncommon (at least in my industry) to hear about this happening but of course you are burning bridges, word could get around if she works in a very tight knit industry, etc.

When I look to switch jobs I go all in and try to get multiple offers landing around the same time if possible partially to drive up the price.

This

*Asking* for a counter would likely create animosity. No one likes to be handed ultimatums.

Is she happy other then money?

The way to handle this is to turn in her resignation. If they decide to counter she can share with them her current offer if she would prefer to stay…. But she should be prepared to leave.

+1

Yep! I agree with this too.

Definitely. If the offer was accepted that should be honored and no attempt at getting the current employer to counter.

^^^^ There is no "honor" in big corporate America... zip, zilch, nada... none.

signed.....

An old ho' :D

Believe me, I know. But lowering yourself to their level wouldn't be something I'd be all to eager to do. I still need to be able to look at myself in the mirror and like the person I am.

I've just seen too much from back in the day... mostly merger/acquisition bs and the corporate lies to make it happen. No mirrors in those ivory towers either ... that's for sure! I only ho'd for four... good pimps go bad too :D

As some others have suggested - Leave.
Mgmt at her current firm will ALWAYS remember this even if they meet or exceed the offer to keep her.

I've been counter-offered a ~30% raise to stay someplace before. If you were willing to pay me that much more, you should have been doing it already. You were basically happy to screw me. I wouldn't take a counter because I'd be concerned that they were ready to can me at any second when it suited them, or they'd suddenly expect double the work out of me.

I have seen lots of folks that left a job and then went back latter for a bunch more money.

My last job of working for someone was what got me into aerial photography. I was working for a friend and business owner and liked my job. But I could see the company shrinking. Professional photography was going away as everyone had new digital cameras and they were happy to accept "good enough" photos they took themselves.

My lifetime background in photography made aerial photography an easy transition. I was offered more money with promises of rapid raises and a company with increasing revenues. It was hard to tell a friend and boss I was leaving. I gave him a two week notice, and showed co-workers all my projects, and how I did them. I made it clear I was leaving to a company that was not a competitor, and in fact was a customer for film processing and large prints. I was available to answer questions, and help for complex projects.

That company went out of business 4 years later due to the shrinking film business, and professionals leaving the business.

Sage advice that.

I'd also add that she should consider whether she likes current place. The next job is an unknown and it is entirely possible that she could get there and be unhappy.

I left one Fed Gov agency for another and was beyond unhappy. I got more money but the situation just sucked.

When I got the offer for the new job, I knew the HR person at the gaining agency was on leave for a couple of days so I didn't approach my boss to inform and discuss transition. Later the same day my boss walked into my office and dropped the bomb on me. I apologized but it was extremely uncomfortable that she had found out from the gaining agency without me telling her first. OUch

I think commitments need to be honored. And I also think that employers who take advantage of workers should be punished. She does not like her current work environment and she has accepted an offer. She should leave without a word.

She's not going to ask for a counter. She'll submit resignation today and see what happens.

Come to think of it, when I did this around 2002, I didn't ask for a counter. My boss flat out asked how much it would take to keep me. I was so sure it was out of their range, but just told him what I had been offered and said I'd need that much plus a realistic shot at earning more with performance. It was a base + commission job, so they raised my base, lowered my goals, made them retroactive, even paid me a true-up check and things were pretty peachy thereafter until the company was bought out about four yrs later.

Here's how ya do it.

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Absolutely correct. But, I want to operate with integrity even when no one else does. Why lower yourself just because everyone else does? Take the high road and hold your head up high.

Of course there is "honor". The world is a VERY small place these days where anyone can dig in your network and find someone that knows both you and them. And people will remember you when you screw them over. All it takes is a "hey, looks like you know this person, I am thinking about hiring them?" ... "Yes, all I can say that I wouldn't hire them". And there goes your next opportunity in the industry. Integrity is everything, if you don't have it naturally, at least act like it!

I think what KC is saying is that "corporate America" would screw you over in a hot second if it benefitted the business and wouldn't think twice about it. Since 2020 and the start of the pandemic, I've seen it in the way big businesses deal with me. I understand it. I'll adapt to it. And when they need my services again in the future I'll deal with them according to how they dealt with me.

Absolutely. I worked with a guy that developed a drinking problem. When he drank, he'd often like to fight. He was out of state for work with a couple of other guys. After work at the hotel with the other guys he got drunk and started talking about fighting some guy down the bar in the hotel so our other guys (who were his subordinates) got him outside to defuse the impending fracas with the stranger. Once outside, where he only had the two guys to target, he picked one and hit him. He ended up getting fired for it. I know of at least two jobs that he applied for afterwards where the news caught up with him. In one case, one of the guys that was there was friends with another guy. One night they are hanging out and my buddy says "I've got a story that you've got to hear" and the other guy says "Hey, Do you know 'Bob' that works where you work?" "Yeah, that's the guy the story is about." In another instance, he applies for a job and a guy knows a guy that knows the story.

I think it took that guy nearly a year to find a job and Houston is a BIG place with LOTS of places to work.

I am going to brag. I hold (until the end of May when I retire) a fairly powerful decision-making regulatory position over an industry of at least $6 billion. My decisions affect how that money is distributed. Players in that industry regularly engage in unsavory behavior. Even some of the leaders in my own organization, a state agency, engage in what I call "transactional" decision-making.

Absence of a moral compass makes me crazy. Nobody in my industry can raise questions of my integrity, and they all know this. Indeed, some things are happening right now that I consider unsavory. Injustice. Greed. Unethical deal-making. And I wonder if they notice that in five weeks I will wake up with nothing to do and a head full of secrets and knowledge of facts and documents. I may very well teach some lessons to some people.

My mom was the same way. She was happy and relaxed all the time, except on a rare occasion when she saw unethical behavior. This made her LIVID. I feel lucky that I am blessed with the same perspective. I like the guy in the mirror.

You know, your retirement could be A LOT more comfortable...

:D ;)

I don't know what changed, but yesterday Mrs. Lee had a chat with her boss about other stuff, made no mention that she was going to resign, but told me she won't listen to any counter offer. She's getting her stuff in order and submitting resignation letter today. If they don't let her finish out the two weeks, she'll enjoy some time off before we head to FL for one of my convention trips and then start the new job the Monday after we return.

That's great news, Rick. Life stress falls away when we see, with our mind and our heart, a clear path ahead.

What I did- big bank in trouble called me back for new projects with lots of lies and same old promises- I told 'em GFY. Not after last round, we're done.

rjp

Her boss called literally five seconds after she sent the email and asked what they could do to keep her.

The problem is that "corporate America" isn't something abstract in your day to day work life. There are people at those companies, managers, HR, coworkers etc. that you leave hanging if you do not have integrity.

I have seen success stories with people taking a counter and staying / being happy. Usually that takes a decent team to pull off. If there isn't a lot of love already and the rule generally is that you want to avoid it. It breaks the trust and the manager may just try to control damage, paying whatever it takes, and give themselves time to find a replacement.

I suspect Mrs. Lee would be wary of a counter-offer. Could be an invitation out of a frying pan and into a fire. Plus....I sincerely believe that people and organizations should be made to pay the consequences of their actions. And inactions.