High End Kitchen Appliances Are A Complete Scam
 

Went and looked at appliances yesterday. Horrified mostly by the complexity and the utter lack of repair knowledge in the showroom. As far as I can tell these units are for people that care that the anodizing matches on the knobs, not people like me that have been unable to repair a bad capacitive touch controller that is NLA.

And lastly nothing is in stock, order times are crazy, etc, etc.

I've known so many people with crazy parts prices and stuck with busted high end appliances. $8k ranges that 'broke' and not repairable after 3 years. Friend had a viking 'rise from the counter' hood where the switch that controlled the rise was an integrated mainboard/membrane button that cost $650 to replace. Problem maybe a combination of complexity, parts costs, and total lack of knowledgeable repair people. Probably a bad cap or transformer, or a broken solder joint.

I've used ancient stovetops that were valves for gas and you dropped a match in and whump it started up. The basics of what a stovetop does are super simple, no excuse for how difficult my jennaire is to repair, let alone the non-repairable viking fan switch.

Looks like our best option is some whirlpool derivative downdraft stovetop from home depot for $2500. But before we go that route, is there some common sense stovetop maker? Some startup that is branching out from outdoor grills and making stovetops? Seems like the profit is there if someone could figure it out. Is there some brand that doesn't suck?

PS: Sorry about the downdraft - I know its crazy - but it is the fact of the house. There's just nowhere 'up' and 'over' for the air to go.

A friend purchased a high end home last year. Within a few months, the dishwasher broke. She called the repairman, and as she read off the unit's serial number, he started laughing. Turns out that while it had a Wolf badge on the front (to match the range/oven/fridge), it was actually a Maytag unit. The PO had just slapped a Wolf badge on the front.

(The rest of the kitchen appliances really are Wolf units.)

"Barnum" appliances are the absolute best.... Look for his initials on the back though :D!

Consumer Reports has been reviewing appliances for decades. Go with their recommendations.

Hahahahahahah, that's really funny/bad.

Yep. If you check consumer reports, they say that the functionality and especially the reliability of the "pro" models is usually not as good as the consumer models. The interesting thing is that they also say that the customers reporting issues also love their "pro" appliances and would buy them again.

Agreed, trying to actually purchase stuff right now is a nightmare. Your best (nearly only) bet is to find something in stock somewhere. If it's not in stock, then be prepared to wait.

And funny that you'd mention using old stoves. We just bought a Chambers stove that was built in 1948 to be our "new" stove.

I think it is more than just high end. Our fridge (prob $3k) has a bad water flow sensor meter thing that controls/monitors water for the ice and water dispenser. I ordered it in the spring. Still out of stock and I don't think its coming any time soon. Kenmore.

12-ish years ago, we renovated the kitchen in our old home. We put in new dishwasher, cooktop, oven, and refrigerator. All were Kitchenaid Architect. The cooktop was the second from the top, gas, and the only 2 things that it was missing was an LED that came-on/stayed-on to tell you that it was hot and a special coating to make it easier to clean. If we'd known, we'd have paid for the model with the special coating. We never had a problem with it. The oven was a convection oven. We never used the convection much, but we never had a problem with the oven. We gave our kids the fridge. While they had it the icemaker stopped working. When they moved and we moved into a house, they gave us the fridge and we're still using it. We don't currently have water hooked up to it so the icemaker being broken isn't a big deal. When we get the new fridge for our soon to start renovation of the new kitchen, this fridge will move to the garage to replace the old one that's out there. The dishwasher developed a problem with the keypad. Sometimes you'd have to press a button a bunch of times for it to work. I eventually worked out that it wasn't the keypad itself, but the control module. I ordered one off of the Internet, installed it, and that fixed it. I think all of those things were a bit <$10k back then. I feel like the same stuff if you could get it now would be closer to $15-20k.

My sister recently remodeled their kitchen. All crazy expensive stuff like SubZero, Viking, etc. The fridge and freezer have both been nothing but trouble. It's absurd for the cost.

As a person that loves to cook, I can tell you that the only thing I care about in a good stove top and oven are temperature control and range of temperature. I want the burners to go from the heat of a candle to 20k BTUs, and easy to modulate. Jets that are easy to clean, oven temps that are accurate. Its really quite simple. I could give a rip about all the "smart" appliances.

Right, I don't get the desire for appliances to have bluetooth or wifi or cameras or video screens.

On the flip side, someone is selling this Kelvinator in my general area. I don't need or want it, but if I needed a freezer, that would be really cool. I'm sure it could be "restored" a bit to get the aesthetics back to nearer to new.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1666824394.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1666824394.jpg

And I'm not a luddite. What I really wanted for as a cooktop was an induction stove. I love the way they cook. Gas is good, but induction is better. But, the selection and availability of induction these days (that would satisfy the missus) is practically non-existant. So I was also very happy to go with a 75 year old stove. I hope they work as well as people say.

This is why I buy top of the line previously loved appliances. Recently picked up this 48" range. The quality is amazing. Gas top and electric ovens. It's analog so if something breaks it's easy to repair. It sold for $8K 5 years ago. The current digital versions is $14K. I got this one for a little less.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1666827971.jpg

In our old house, the ice maker in our new Whirlpool Gold fridge stopped working just outside of warranty.

Haven’t built the house and lived there for two or three years, we sold it and moved into a townhome. The icemaker there stopped working and it was only seven years old. We bought the townhome a year ago and it’s still not fixed. Doesn’t bother me.

But, yesterday when I was making cereal, I open the fridge and it was not cold. I checked the temperature and it was right. I turn off the breaker, turned it back on and heard the fridge kick on. I’m afraid it’s days are numbered. Looking at new fridges, that easily start at $2500 on sale for one with ice and water in the door.

I love my wolf and Sub Zero scores from Craigslist, and the parts chain is really great if you need something, even for a range that's 15 or 20 years old. I do have pretty simple non-computery, non-membrane switch versions of them and they've been awesome. knock on wood

My Sharp under counter microwave is 3 magnetrons in 6 years tho.

ALWAYS buy the extended warranty

My experience is that almost everything sold now is junk. You go to find some broken piece of the toilette at Home Depot or wherever and you end up staring at two or three pieces of worthless crap that you know is gonna break in a year or two and deciding which piece is less worthless to buy.

Everything.

Every single piece of legit consumer advice I’ve ever read has said to NOT by extended warranties. The thinking is that everything is disposable now. The sellers of extended warranties get rich whilst the buyers of extended warranties tread water. Statistically speaking, of course.

Are you sure it's analog, meaning, no ICs/chips/circuit boards that control everything? I'd be a little surprised if a 5 year old range didn't have a circuit board in it somewhere, but maybe not.

Why not just fix the one that you've got? There are websites that have troubleshooting guides as well as folks that will answer questions, and then you can buy parts from the same site or a sister site. I've done that 3-5 times over the last 20 years. The repairs have all been cheap (<$100) and easy (<1hr).

I never buy the extended warranty for anything. I think I've purchased it 2-3 times in the past, and I don't think it's ever done anything useful for me.

Exactly. It's not like the extended warranty folks are going to ship you a new major appliance. They are going send the cheapest possible tech to go out to troubleshoot. Then that tech is going to order the part (it'll take a week), then another trip back out a week later after the part comes in to install the part. Then when the first part didn't fix the problem, and the tech couldn't figure out the problem.... (because the cheapest techs are REALLY clueless)

There could be but it's all dials and buttons.

Modern appliances are crap and the fancier they are the worse they seem to be.

12 years ago, we bought all top end appliances when we moved into our house.

We are on our 7th dishwasher - I now buy the cheapest one at Costco and just bring it back when it craps out. We had a fancy Maytag one for a while and it lasted under the 2 year warranty.

The best LG washer dryer at the time needed regular repairs so we bought the cheapest Electrolux (made in North America models) and they’ve been great apart from a sock that got jammed in the dryer and they fixed under warranty.

The LG fridge had been sorta ok.

The Whirlpool Gold gas range has been the only thing that hasn’t needed repairs (yet). We can run the range when the power is out but not the oven.

We do need to buy a new beer fridge - our 15 year old Danby crapped out this week. It lived outside for a year when we were building our house and we’ve been amazed it still worked after that. Anyway, not sure what to replace it with. Probably another cheap Danby.

I’ve had my cheapo dishwasher for going on thirty years.

Worked fine the last time I used it when Hale-Bopp passed by.

Sharp makes great microwaves. Big name also rebadge them

I try to buy commercial stuff. Ugly, crude, zero conveniences, but it’s built to be hammered on.

You know where its gone wrong? Like Steve said, why have so many complicated, often none use electronic features? The other is mandated energy consumption. Plastic gears vs old steel or alum gears. I just learn that all modern appliances have a life span of 10-14 years. Its done. No parts, no repairs due to high cost. Still, I would buy high end appliances over the run of the mill lower/mid grade stuff. Miele still make a great product but pricey.

OP, I often ask why the heck do we need a computer chip in a down draft vent? A switch to make it go up and down another to adj. fan speed. We (wolf is but I am overseeing it)will be installing a 48" wolf down draft unit for a client sometime next year. Fingers and toes crossed. Hopefully all appliances will last ten years before it goes south because we are remodeling this dude's second house over looking the ocean. I like to do his third or his retirement home in the up coming 5-8 years.

Be careful with those commercial stoves. Lack of insulation and must be install with so many inches of air space before flammable materials like cabinets

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1666841504.jpg
This is my outdoor kitchen stove I use a lot. No circuit board and no igniters, it just works. The burners flame on like a jet plane and boils water way faster than my Viking. It's 102 years old, is trouble free and as far as I can tell has been trouble free for 102 years so farhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1666843693.jpg
Our Viking "professional" we paid a lot for. I've had to replace two igniters and my wife says the oven doesn't bake evenly

For the range I got an American Range, which is similar to their commercial model but with insulation, still no electronics unless you count the piezo igniters.

Yeah it wasn't my viking downdraft switch but I looked at the part. Its connected to a ribbon cable that goes to the motor assembly way back under the counter. I suspect there's a pair of relays in there that tell the switch when to stop motoring. To me a $650 replacement switch for a downdraft vent just means you hate your customers.

I had to buy a high amperage timer switch. Found myself looking at Intermatic mechanical timer switches. Things are made out of sheet metal, have a bunch of gears and magic inside, they are cheap and are durable as HELL. Should see the big fat hard solder joints in there. That is a company that figured out a good design a long time ago and perfected it. In contrast these appliances are just such awful garbage. I'm guessing the problem is driven by marketing, the new features and the flash pull the customers. You can't win in mass appliance sales without the new slickness. Only old kooks try and fix stuff.

Another story (involving new miele induction range.) Friend swapped from gas range to miele because of good reviews. She waited about 9 months for range but unfortunately it arrived 2 weeks before electrician could install the new circuit. Selling company delivered unit to her entryway saying they'd come back to install once circuit was ready.

Circuit ready, another 2 weeks, installer shows and... whenever oven heats up the breaker pops. He of course says breaker is bad, electrician messed up. But the induction surfaces work great... She wants to return machine but no "She accepted delivery" so no returns, but miele will come fix it... weeks later...

I'm royally pissed. Give her a list of 4 circuit tests that the repair guy needs to show if he tries to leave without the machine fixed (and blaming the circuit.) Guy arrives late, ends up missing his next appointment. He's there 4 hours and can't get it to behave. He tries to leave and friend calls me. I ball him out on speaker phone - but he doesn't have the tools he'd need to diagnose anything. Some chump with a truck and no clue about electricity. What a bunch of crap. Tell my friend to insist he leaves with the broken device. She's been without a stove for more than a month.

So funny, the last thing he tries, takes all the fans out of the back of the oven, sees nothing wrong, puts them back in and gives up. He leaves with unit buttoned back up. Says he's going to need to come back but at least stovetops are ok to use.

And... whatever was the last thing he did... the oven works now. Some grounding problem in an oven motor? An actual short? Some mystery disease? Anyway. Major city (seattle) new miele induction range, miele repair guy... seriously disappointed.

Last nail in the coffin... it cooks like crap. Whoever thinks induction cooking is good has never used a good gas stove. All that trouble and it just sucks. Friend is stunned that her beautiful copper pans won't work (don't get me started on the decision in the first place.) I wouldn't be surprised if it breaks soon.

Wow thanks for mentioning american. Those look really great! Pretty much exactly what I was looking for except no downdraft.

Wish I had a hood. I guess nothing is impossible, but it'd be big bux.

American is the DCS residential units of the 90s and 2000s. They are simple, reliable, with finishes that are good, but not polished like a jewel similar to many of the Vikings and Thermadors of its time. The pricing reflects that. Normally it was about 1000-1500 bucks cheaper. I would buy an American range any day of the week but we will be going all electric in the future where no gas range or appliance can be had in CA. I just discovered that I can no longer have a tank water heater instead it must be tankless. I am going to stay ahead of their game and hook up 220 power to a box nearby and wait for that day. This is new building code in the city of Torrance where I am building ourselves a new rental.

The same client had Miele in his last place because of my suggestion. Those factory installers are a fooking joke. We can do the job much cleaner then they can with one of our hands tied behind our backs. The ended up not installing the large hood they purchased due to some BS with the tile backing. We popped it up there in a couple hours. Factory trained my azz. bunch of idiots and they charge lots of money.

Hey op, who no vent hood? Second story or ceiling joist or something in the way?

To OP,

I feel for you on the downdrafts. It’s a flawed technology. No solutions here.

I will say that my current kitchen appliances are very high end and pretty great. Yes, my monster subzero probably costs more than my car. And that wolf range is stupid expensive as well. Both have worked flawlessly for 15ish years. My Miele dishwasher was perfect for 15 years until it bit the dust. So I bought a second - which was a challenge due to supply chain issues.

Just a data point. I absolutely despise purchasing disposable stuff. And my kitchen appliances are (generally) made to last.

Sub-Zero, Wolf, et al, are the Range Rovers of appliances.

_

We have been very pleased with our Capital stove. We have a basic open burner 36".

https://capital-cooking.com/products/culinarian/

Nice job on the installation too!




Couldn’t resist. :D