Toyota Chief saying all electric may not be the answer

[pwd72s]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/toyota-president-says-silent-majority-has-doubts-about-pursuing-only-evs-11671372223

“People involved in the auto industry are largely a silent majority,” Mr. Toyoda said to reporters during a visit to Thailand. “That silent majority is wondering whether EVs are really OK to have as a single option. But they think it’s the trend so they can’t speak out loudly.”

While major rivals, including General Motors Co. and Honda Motor Co., have set dates for when their lineups will be all-EV, Toyota has stuck to a strategy of investing in a diverse lineup of vehicles that includes hydrogen-powered cars and hybrids, which combine batteries with gas engines.

The world’s biggest auto maker has said it sees hybrids, a technology it invented with the debut of the Toyota Prius in the 1990s, as an important option when EVs remain expensive and charging infrastructure is still being built out in many parts of the world. It is also developing zero-emission vehicles powered by hydrogen.

“Because the right answer is still unclear, we shouldn’t limit ourselves to just one option,” Mr. Toyoda said. Over the past few years, Mr. Toyoda said, he has tried to convey this point to industry stakeholders, including government officials—an effort he described as tiring at times."

[masraum]

I feel like the response to Mr Toyoda is "no sheiße!"

[GH85Carrera]

Just today I saw some idiot that ran out of gas. He was pouring gas in from a two gallon gas can into his car. As an old geezer, I can say positively, never once have I run out of gas. My first car (60 VW bug) did not have a gas gauge. It was a option back in 1960.

I presume if an electric car just goes dead, it is bring a two truck and haul it to a charging station. Pretty had to pour in a gallon of electricity on the side of the road.

I predict it will be over 20 years before electric cars are even 1/2 the cars on the road.

[KFC911]

Mr. Toyoda? Ya gotta be kiddin' me ?

[rusnak]

^ How many people run out of battery power on their phones during a normal day? Let's be generous and say it's 10%.

Freeways no longer work when one car breaks down. Can you imagine 10% of the cars stuck on the freeways, every day?

[KFC911]

Can't count the times I've given someone a ride (and back to their car), or got gas from my house for them...

I don't have a battery to give them...

[dw1]

I, for one am extremely happy that an industry leader like Mr. Toyoda actually came out and said this.

My view is this is a "Capt. Obvious" comment, but one other industry leader are unwilling to voice because of 1) the lemming-like attitude of the industry, and 2) the need to get as many people as possible to buy EV's to justify the investments the companies made in this technology. Oh, and also because it brings back "planned obsolesce" in a big way - How many people will spend the large $$$ for a new battery pack on a 10 year old car? How many people will be able to service their own cars since EV's don't have to be OBDII compliant?

It only takes some quick thumbnail calculations to show clearly that the electrical grid infrastructure cannot provide the power required if EV percentages increased significantly. Just look at California - rolling brownouts because of problems now will only get worse. I think someday soon the "don't charge your car on hot days" (because of the A/C demand on the grid) will be heard more frequently in CA.

IMHO, hydrogen fuel options should be receiving a LOT more attention than it is now. But then, I'm an R&D guy so what do I know....

[McLovin]

Toyota is following and pursuing science, but underestimating the power of politicians and pseudo science.

[ZAMIRZ]

Originally Posted by rusnak

^ How many people run out of battery power on their phones during a normal day? Let's be generous and say it's 10%.

Freeways no longer work when one car breaks down. Can you imagine 10% of the cars stuck on the freeways, every day?

It really depends on how much of your usable range you're consuming between recharging. Running your electric car down to 0% is a significantly different psychological equation than your phone and much less likely. You're suggesting that 10% of EV owners are running out of energy on a daily basis and that's simply not the case.

Re; bringing your friend a gallon of gas. Future EVs will have L2 V2V charging capability which will allow you to use your own vehicle charge to help someone stranded who might need some range.

I also suspect that there will be certain DC Fast Charge trucks that can deploy energy at speeds faster than L2.

[MBAtarga]

About 2 weeks ago, I was leaving our nearest Costco location. Across the street is a retail shopping center - with about 8 or 10 Tesla charging stations grouped together along the outside perimeter of the parking lot and facing Costco. While waiting for traffic to clear, along comes a flatbed with a Tesla aboard. Yep - headed to take it to a charging station.

[944 S2]

Most in the industry are definitely not sold on all electric. They’re just following the crazy train! Me i’m waiting on the fusion 911!

[Chocaholic]

I think I now like Toyota a bit more. Kudos to them for not folding to political pressure from know-nothing politicians. I’m amazed others caved with such enthusiasm.

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by ZAMIRZ

You're suggesting that 10% of EV owners are running out of energy on a daily basis and that's simply not the case.

No, that is not what I said.

The reason we use the cell phone analogy is because everyone has them, including the non-elites, the unemployed, the barely employed, the idiots, and the hoi polloi.

Unless you're suggesting that only people with money should be allowed to drive and own a car, the requirement of plugging in your car every night will mean that millions of people will be diligently charging their vehicles, much as the elite population of EV owners do now. Do you really thing that's a sane assumption to make? Remember, we're not talking about people who own a house and can afford to fit a 220v rapid charger in their garage. How do you prevent people from stealing the charging gear that will have to be left outside all day and night? Your psychological equation falls apart when you apply it to the entire population of people who will need to get around.

[PorscheGAL]

Running out of battery in an EV is not something that surprises you. Just like ICE cars there is a gauge telling you how many miles to E. The people who run out of gas will run out of battery but the vast majority, I don't see making that mistake.

As for running out, there is a roadside option Zip Charge Portable Charger much like a gas can for ICE cars.

[rusnak]

I have a flat screen OLED TV. Four in fact. 64" or whatever the heck they are. They're awesome. Why doesn't everyone own one like I do? While we're on that topic, people should go out and buy awesome wall mounts too, so they can accessorize.

[Jeff Higgins]

Depending on source, we are already facing a situation where somewhere between 23-27% of EV charging stations are inoperable. One in four...

https://www.businessinsider.com/electric-car-charging-reliability-broken-stations-ev-2022-5

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/05/16/a-quarter-of-all-ev-chargers-dont-work-half-of-car-trips-are-less-than-3-miles/

https://www.vice.com/en/article/epzgkk/27-percent-of-electric-vehicle-fast-chargers-in-the-bay-area-dont-work-study-finds

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/16/business/energy-environment/electric-vehicles-broken-chargers.html

[ZAMIRZ]

Originally Posted by rusnak

No, that is not what I said.

The reason we use the cell phone analogy is because everyone has them, including the non-elites, the unemployed, the barely employed, the idiots, and the hoi polloi.

Unless you're suggesting that only people with money should be allowed to drive and own a car, the requirement of plugging in your car every night will mean that millions of people will be diligently charging their vehicles, much as the elite population of EV owners do now. Do you really thing that's a sane assumption to make? Remember, we're not talking about people who own a house and can afford to fit a 220v rapid charger in their garage. How do you prevent people from stealing the charging gear that will have to be left outside all day and night? Your psychological equation falls apart when you apply it to the entire population of people who will need to get around.

I didn't say anything about plugging in overnight.

While there is a learning curve with how the energy is consumed it's similar to fuel mileage and gasoline consumption besides the unit of measure. There are some factors that will adversely affect state of charge like really cold weather, but really cold weather also consumes more fuel in an ICE powered vehicle.

The time it takes and availability of recharging does take some adjustment and should be considered when shopping for an EV, but there's a lot of information out there for consumers to make an informed decision, and it's all free assuming you have internet access.

I don't understand what argument you're making about elite population of EV owners? There are plenty of folks who don't own a house that drive an EV. What charging gear are you referring to leaving outside all day or night? Doesn't sound like you have much experience with EVs or ownership. A car with a battery isn't prejudiced or elitist, it's just another inanimate object.

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by ZAMIRZ

I didn't say anything about plugging in overnight.

While there is a learning curve with how the energy is consumed it's similar to fuel mileage and gasoline consumption besides the unit of measure. There are some factors that will adversely affect state of charge like really cold weather, but really cold weather also consumes more fuel in an ICE powered vehicle.

The time it takes and availability of recharging does take some adjustment and should be considered when shopping for an EV, but there's a lot of information out there for consumers to make an informed decision, and it's all free assuming you have internet access.

I don't understand what argument you're making about elite population of EV owners? There are plenty of folks who don't own a house that drive an EV. What charging gear are you referring to leaving outside all day or night? Doesn't sound like you have much experience with EVs or ownership. A car with a battery isn't prejudiced or elitist, it's just another inanimate object.

I love the way you just brush aside the fact that implementing EVs on a global scale isn't the real problem - the "real problem" is that people don't know how to plug the car into this newfangled electricity thing.

EVs are fun once you get to know them! Oh, and they're apparently cheap to acquire.

[Mahler9th]

Toyota has large resources committed to the future of mobility:

https://www.tri.global/about-us


https://toyota.ventures/


https://www.woven-planet.global/en/who-we-are

https://www.woven-city.global/

We (my biz associates) know key leaders of all of these areas.

Their efforts have been going on for a long time.

Why are they doing all of this?

Ducats.

[stealthn]

That’s because they just announced a hydrogen combustion engine… SMH