Joining A Private (Gun) Club

[Por_sha911]

For me, being around other shooters with reports going off unexpectedly is a good thing. I helps me to not be alarmed but unexpected firing and flinch.

IMO, clubs with very strict rules about membership is to avoid, anti 2A people coming in to disrupt things or, wachos who would end up on the MSM 7 pm news and that would tarnish the reputation of the club.

[Ayles]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I hear you. That is exactly the kind of thing we will not tolerate. Number one, all shots must remain on target or they will be asked to move it closer until they do. Number two, no rapid fire - two seconds between shots.

We get criticism for the latter from the folks who claim they cannot run realistic defensive drills. To make matters "worse" for this crowd, we do not allow anyone to draw from the holster to shoot, nor do we allow anyone to reholster any gun after having fired it on our range. It is here where far too many people shoot themselves in the leg, or the concrete floor right next to them, and so forth.

We do recognize a need for that kind of practice. Unfortunately, we are not set up to accommodate them. We are accused of being "fuddy duddy" set in our ways old farts but - see above. No injuries. Ever. We simply cannot afford a single "accident" of any kind. See below...



Yup. We have been the victims of "suburban encroachment". Even when I joined, some 35 years ago, we were still well out in the woods. We are now surrounded on three sides by housing developments, with a gravel pit across the road being the fourth side. We are situated mere blocks outside of the most notoriously anti-gun county in our state (King County, home of Seattle) in probably the third most anti-gun county in our state, Snohomish County.

Many years ago King County found itself in need of a new sewage treatment plant (aka "turd farm"). Their County Executive placed our site on his final list of three candidates, even though it lies outside of King County. The only things that saved us were the fact that we are the only site in a multi-county area that provides a location for the firearms training of law enforcement personnel, for one, and secondly, our neighbors. They actually love us. We have been fantastic neighbors. Much, much better in their estimation than a new turd farm - for the neighboring county. What an insult.

We have developed an outstanding relationship with the law enforcement communities in our area. We are all they have. They come to us or they do not shoot. What a horrible, untenable situation for their various counties and municipalities to have placed them. Alas, such is the anti-gun fervor in this area (but please, I don't want to get into that). We could actually really "bend them over" through usage fees and the like, since we are the only game in town. But we don't. They shoot for free, even to the point of us shutting down our members' only range and hours to accommodate them. We bend over backwards to help them. That relationship paid off in a big, big way.

Much of our good relationship with our neighbors is attributable to how we run our ranges. The fact that they do not see emergency responders showing up with sirens on, the fact that they have never read about an "accident" (most really aren't) at our club. Our rifle and pistol ranges are sufficiently baffled so as to keep the neighbors from complaining about the noise. It is audible outside of our property, of course, but we keep very "neighbor friendly" hours. What they don't need to hear is some "rat a tat tat" nonsense emanating from our range.

So, yeah, in spite of dramatic encroachment, we're hanging in there. Growing, even. I attribute our success to our absolutely diligent adherence to our own rules, and a rule set that takes into account just where we are located.

This feels much like a place I have been many many years ago in Snohomish County. I have a vague memory of going shooting with my step dad who was a State Trooper at the time to an outdoor range not far from where we lived. I want to say it was near Canyon Park but its been over 30years.

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

I am confused:

- What's the problem with "plastic combat 9 pistols"? Are they any less dangerous with a metal 1911 or .357 magnum revolver?

- "constant concussive blasts" This one of the reasons that God created ear muffs and ear plugs (I use both at the same time when indoors). If you don't like loud noises maybe a gun range isn't the right place for you. Have you considered golf or tennis?

- "watching them use every bit of the 2’ x 3’ target is worrisome" Maybe you were an expert marksman when you first started shooting but as a new shooter with very little experience I would have been worrisome to you.

I am more concerned about shooters who are too busy being macho big-shots who have never learned (or don't follow) Jeff Cooper's 4 Firearm Safety Rules.
If the shooter is keeping everything pointed down range and following the rules for cease fire then I'm glad they are there.

The post here that confused me is Higgie Baby's comment that LE use his range. And they follow a 2 second between rounds rule. That would be pure 100% LOL around here. I mean are you kidding me? LE gun jocks are the worst gun safety offenders, and always, always always rapid fire, empty at least 1 mag in < 10 seconds type of thing.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by rusnak

LE gun jocks are the worst gun safety offenders, and always, always always rapid fire, empty at least 1 mag in < 10 seconds type of thing.

"Spray and pray"

[jyl]

I’m just being grouchy.
- I have no problem with wonder nines - I own one - and yes pistol ranges are noisy, but this range used to be pretty lightly used, most of the time you’d have the place to yourself.
- The previous experience of peacefully target shooting by yourself, and now being sandwiched between multiple guys emptying their magazines, is distinctly different.
- I just think it’s weird to see a guy with four or five pistols, all with lasers and/or red dots, burning up 200 rounds, who can’t put more than a few rounds of each magazine in a dinner plate sized circle at 50 ft. He can’t be a new shooter, with that arsenal. He must want to hit what he’s aiming at, with all that stuff hung on his pistols. And he sure chews through shells. So it’s puzzling to watch the results.

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

I am confused:

- What's the problem with "plastic combat 9 pistols"? Are they any less dangerous with a metal 1911 or .357 magnum revolver?

- "constant concussive blasts" This one of the reasons that God created ear muffs and ear plugs (I use both at the same time when indoors). If you don't like loud noises maybe a gun range isn't the right place for you. Have you considered golf or tennis?

- "watching them use every bit of the 2’ x 3’ target is worrisome" Maybe you were an expert marksman when you first started shooting but as a new shooter with very little experience I would have been worrisome to you.

I am more concerned about shooters who are too busy being macho big-shots who have never learned (or don't follow) Jeff Cooper's 4 Firearm Safety Rules.
If the shooter is keeping everything pointed down range and following the rules for cease fire then I'm glad they are there.

[jyl]

Jeff, the club I’m trying to join is super strict. No holster work, no rapid fire, no combat drills, Only two 7 yard lanes for center fire pistol. No centerfire rifle. Almost all the lanes are reserved for 22 pistol, 22 rifle (active youth squad), and air pistol/rifle, targets at 50 ft only. It’s an old school, strictly target shooting place. Zero alcohol on site, not even during social events. It is in a residential area, and they stay very low profile. Portland was trying to shut them down as an “unreinforced masonry building”, until the city was forced to abandon its URM program; I was part of getting that program killed, as it turns out.

I’ll keep my membership in the current range, if I get into the new one. Have to support local gun clubs.

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by jyl

I’m just being grouchy.
- I have no problem with wonder nines - I own one - and yes pistol ranges are noisy, but this range used to be pretty lightly used, most of the time you’d have the place to yourself.
- The previous experience of peacefully target shooting by yourself, and now being sandwiched between multiple guys emptying their magazines, is distinctly different.
- I just think it’s weird to see a guy with four or five pistols, all with lasers and/or red dots, burning up 200 rounds, who can’t put more than a few rounds of each magazine in a dinner plate sized circle at 50 ft. He can’t be a new shooter, with that arsenal. He must want to hit what he’s aiming at, with all that stuff hung on his pistols. And he sure chews through shells. So it’s puzzling to watch the results.

He may not know how to properly sight the red dot in. Lasers on a pistol can be iffy on some models.

I would recommend that you gently ask him if he would like help sighting his rig in. A Trijicon RMR or Holosun will sight in the same as a scope. That is, the dials are made to be turned with the rim of a cartridge. You move the point of impact, not the point of aim. You can get one sighted in usually in less than 10 minutes. Once adjusted, the red dot will have a good shooter sending rounds down the same hole all day long.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

I am confused:

- What's the problem with "plastic combat 9 pistols"? Are they any less dangerous with a metal 1911 or .357 magnum revolver?

- "constant concussive blasts" This one of the reasons that God created ear muffs and ear plugs (I use both at the same time when indoors). If you don't like loud noises maybe a gun range isn't the right place for you. Have you considered golf or tennis?

- "watching them use every bit of the 2’ x 3’ target is worrisome" Maybe you were an expert marksman when you first started shooting but as a new shooter with very little experience I would have been worrisome to you.

I am more concerned about shooters who are too busy being macho big-shots who have never learned (or don't follow) Jeff Cooper's 4 Firearm Safety Rules.
If the shooter is keeping everything pointed down range and following the rules for cease fire then I'm glad they are there.

I've seen these guys as well, just not at my gun club. The kind of guy who cannot hit a god damned thing, but makes up for it in volume of fire. All of the latest tacti-cool gizmos on their guns, trying their best to "buy proficiency". Every magazine seems to be an exercise in how quickly they can empty it. And, yes, these are usually shooting some kind of plastic "wonder nine".

It's really, really easy to tell the beginning neophyte shooter from these guys. They have an entirely different approach to their shooting. They may very well have the same guns (usually not festooned with all of the crap, however), but they certainly have different attitudes. We all love to see these kinds of new shooters. It's their attitude that really makes the difference.

Originally Posted by KC911

My club is VERY exclusive .... only allows one azzhole to be in it ....

Seriously though, I would not like shooting with others around .... even Higgins .

Hey, if that's the only requirement - can I join? I could double your membership!

Originally Posted by Ayles

This feels much like a place I have been many many years ago in Snohomish County. I have a vague memory of going shooting with my step dad who was a State Trooper at the time to an outdoor range not far from where we lived. I want to say it was near Canyon Park but its been over 30years.

Yup. The Kenmore Ranges. Just over the hill from the Canyon Park area of Bothell. I think they have been there since the 1940's, maybe longer. Great place to shoot, and only a ten minute drive from my house.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by jyl

- I just think it’s weird to see a guy with four or five pistols, all with lasers and/or red dots, burning up 200 rounds, who can’t put more than a few rounds of each magazine in a dinner plate sized circle at 50 ft. He can’t be a new shooter, with that arsenal. He must want to hit what he’s aiming at, with all that stuff hung on his pistols. And he sure chews through shells. So it’s puzzling to watch the results.

You may be right but maybe he just enjoys the adrenaline rush of shooting guns and doesn't care if he is an expert marksman. Shooting is his roller coaster or video game. Don't be jealous that he has the money to buy the extra toys for the guns and burn through ammo.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I've seen these guys as well, just not at my gun club. The kind of guy who cannot hit a god damned thing, but makes up for it in volume of fire. All of the latest tacti-cool gizmos on their guns, trying their best to "buy proficiency". Every magazine seems to be an exercise in how quickly they can empty it. And, yes, these are usually shooting some kind of plastic "wonder nine".

It's really, really easy to tell the beginning neophyte shooter from these guys. They have an entirely different approach to their shooting. They may very well have the same guns (usually not festooned with all of the crap, however), but they certainly have different attitudes. We all love to see these kinds of new shooters. It's their attitude that really makes the difference.



Hey, if that's the only requirement - can I join? I could double your membership!

.

Mebbe if you bring a few fun spoons to let me try! It's a "hunt & fish" club .... you can't shoot my deer and ya gotta throw the bass back in too' ..... thems the rulez !

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by KC911

Mebbe if you bring a few fun spoons to let me try! It's a "hunt & fish" club .... you can't shoot my deer and ya gotta throw the bass back in too' ..... thems the rulez !

Still working out the details of "shoot and release". I'll get back to you...

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Still working out the details of "shoot and release". I'll get back to you...

Rules are meant to be bent....

All the fish you can shoot and all the deer you can catch !

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Still working out the details of "shoot and release". I'll get back to you...

LOL.

If you don't get good shot placement then it may become "shoot and chase"

[Jim Bremner]

I was going to start training other pistol shooters, until a friend of mine told me about lead poisoning that she got from being an instructor at a indoor range. This is the cleanest indoor range with great airflow.

If you're looking at becoming a member of an indoor range try to make sure that it's well ventilated.

As far as non tactical ranges ?

I'll avoid the FUD ranges.

My favorite in SoCal is FT3. You're able to earn. The right to holster draw. I had a trainer one day and was allowed to break the 1 shot per second rule. 20 rounds in 11 seconds in a pie plate while the target is coming at you from 25 yards is good training

[jyl]

Originally Posted by Jim Bremner

I was going to start training other pistol shooters, until a friend of mine told me about lead poisoning that she got from being an instructor at a indoor range. This is the cleanest indoor range with great airflow.

If you're looking at becoming a member of an indoor range try to make sure that it's well ventilated.

As far as non tactical ranges ?

I'll avoid the FUD ranges.

My favorite in SoCal is FT3. You're able to earn. The right to holster draw. I had a trainer one day and was allowed to break the 1 shot per second rule. 20 rounds in 11 seconds in a pie plate while the target is coming at you from 25 yards is good training

An N95 mask and handwashing should deal with lead, even if you’re spending a lot of lot of time at an indoor range, I think?

One reason I will keep my membership at the unattended range is that on the occasions when I am the only one there (like midday, sometimes) I can draw five 3” circles on the back of a target and try rapid fire. Admittedly I’m not “rapid” enough to break the 1/sec rule but a boy can always hope. As long as I’m getting my shots in or nearly in the circles, I think I’m being safe.

[Jeff Higgins]

We have a few counties that prohibit the use of "lead" ammunition in indoor ranges. Their excuse is "lead poisoning". The reality is the fact that their councils are rabidly anti-gun and understand nothing about the hazards associated with indoor ranges regarding lead poisoning.

The fact of the matter is that it is the primer, not the bullet, that contributes to lead poisoning through airborne particulates. Lead styphanate is the "active ingredient" in modern primers, replacing the even worse (for other reasons) fulminate of mercury that preceded it.

The industry has responded with modern primers that are free of both toxins, but the word has not gotten out. We can now purchase ammunition (unfortunately, not yet component primers) that are primed with entirely lead and mercury free, "indoor safe" priming compounds. If indoor ranges would simply require the use of this ammunition (and sell it), the problem would disappear.

Unfortunately, politicians would rather ban an entire class of ammunition. Doing so better fits their agenda. And, well, profit driven indoor ranges will, unfortunately, strive to meet only those regulations required to keep them in business. It's not a great situation. "The truth is out there."

[jyl]

I got to step 5), the first of three sessions of shooting under observation (see OP for the steps to get into this club). I set up with the Pardini, went through my usual process, loaded three magazines, fired one magazine (five rounds), and the membership director said “I’ve seen enough, the pistol team will do the rest of your vetting”. So there’s progress been made.

[KFC911]

^^^^ Good stuff John! It doesn't take long to see if someone is really adept with gun safety imo....

It's those first few minutes that scare the crap out of me .

[masraum]

Originally Posted by jyl

I got to step 5), the first of three sessions of shooting under observation (see OP for the steps to get into this club). I set up with the Pardini, went through my usual process, loaded three magazines, fired one magazine (five rounds), and the membership director said “I’ve seen enough, the pistol team will do the rest of your vetting”. So there’s progress been made.

Nice! You're on the way.

[jyl]

The cool thing is on my way out I chatted with a nice guy, an architect, put a commercial hood in his old house, gave me some advice about makeup air. We talked about Pardini and Hammerli pistols, also about Measure 114 and the cluster that has resulted. As I was leaving he asked when my application would come to a membership vote. I said I don’t know, I still had two vetting sessions to do. He says “I’m the club president and used to run the pistol team, I’m still on it but Gregor runs it now. Come next Monday to our team practice, we’ll handle the rest of your vetting.” I was happy about that.

I’ve also joined the waiting list for a far larger shooting club that is outside of Portland. It has everything - 600 m rifle, trap, practical pistol, classes, competitions, etc. It’s a year wait, or more, to get to step 2 there.