Hip Shooting

[Steve Carlton]

Okay. He's a total douche on camera.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

Okay. He's a total douche on camera.

An apology might be in order, but it's clear you just don't have it in you.

Character matters.

[Steve Carlton]

Let's talk about your character, Jeff. You assumed Mat Mladin was guilty of sexual abuse.

I corrected my statement to narrow it to Bob's personality on camera. I don't owe him or you an apology for anything else. It's my opinion and I'm entitled to you. You, however, feel the need to impose your opinion on others. You get off on telling people that they're wrong and don't know what they're talking about, yet you are the resident expert who knows what he's talking about. You're a bully on this forum. Maybe that escaped you, I don't know. That says a lot about you and your character.

[Eric Hahl]

Lots of shooting from the hip going on, lol.

[Steve Carlton]

We use verbal ammunition here, Mister.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Eric Hahl

Lots of shooting from the hip going on, lol.

Barney Fife ain't got nuthin' on me

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

Let's talk about your character, Jeff. You assumed Mat Mladin was guilty of sexual abuse.

I corrected my statement to narrow it to Bob's personality on camera. I don't owe him or you an apology for anything else. It's my opinion and I'm entitled to you. You, however, feel the need to impose your opinion on others. You get off on telling people that they're wrong and don't know what they're talking about, yet you are the resident expert who knows what he's talking about. You're a bully on this forum. Maybe that escaped you, I don't know. That says a lot about you and your character.

When all else fails, divert...

No, I never accused Matt Mladin. I accused his team members of possibly knowing and covering it up, based upon the circumstances as presented in many articles written about those incidents.

I went on to very publicly apologize for having made those accusations, openly admitting I was wrong. Right here on this very forum. Funny how you can't seem to remember that part of that conversation.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/1055990-mat-mladin-wtf.html]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Well, it appears java's hunch was rather clairvoyant.

I mean, are you freaking kidding me? That kind of b.s got traction in court???

I wish Mr. Mladin all of the best. And, again, as java pointed out two years ago - this kind of nonsense will forever follow him, will forever be a cloud over his head. In that respect, those petty, vindictive accusers will forever have a bit of a "win", at least in their eyes, no matter how wrong it may be in ours.

And again, java, I honestly meant no disrespect to anyone. You are absolutely right in that I do not know, and will never know, any of the characters in this unfortunate drama. Please accept my apologies. I know this involved your friends, folks you know that I never will. I admire your zealous, unwavering support for them - I hope I have friends like you if something like this ever comes my way. They were just "celebrities" to me, and I felt free to comment on them in that sort of a detached manner. I was wrong. I'm sorry.

So, yes, character matters.

[Steve Carlton]

I think doing what you did in the first place was your mistake. I don't remember what other thread(s) you've apologized in, but I think there's at least another one. Your stated assumptions are 100 times more egregious than me saying a guy is a douche in an interview. But let's not let scale get in the way. As long as you apologize, all is forgiven, right?

I guess I'm entitled to my own opinion as long as it's yours, right?

[Jeff Higgins]

Back on topic.

After having attended a good number of shooting schools just for schitts and giggles (and plenty of those to be had), one of the most often stressed points is that there is always time for what they call a "flash" sight picture, having raised the pistol or revolver high enough to see one. The draw, especially from concealment, is the slowest part of the whole exercise. Raising the arm from your hip to eye level is done very, very quickly.

In this "flash" sight picture, all we are looking for is the front sight. At defensive ranges such that "speed matters", merely covering your target with the front sight will ensure a hit. Pay no attention to the rear sight.

As range, and therefor time increases, it becomes important to find that rear sight as well. But, well, then "hip shooting" would never enter the mind under those circumstances.

At each and every school we ran through drills to demonstrate the speed and effectiveness of these various techniques. Hip shooting was never appreciably faster than this "flash" sight picture, but it sure did make hits difficult. First shot hits count. Being the first to hit counts for even more.

Yes, granted, in a "retention" type of a situation, where there is a danger of having the perp grab your gun, hip shooting can be warranted. Stiff-arming them, Jim Brown style, with your left hand while shooting with your right. While I have never had to do any of this (and never hope to), this latter scenario is far more common than most realize. It gets a lot uglier in real life than it does on television.

[Zeke]

Looking at the movie scene IDT it was any feat at all to hit someone pretty much in the center torso from a seated position. That's part of it. I've never seen anyone shot in person and have seen very few videos of an actual shot hitting a human. Reason tells me that even a 12 gauge at that range would have been devastating and lethal. Probably would have knocked the guy over.

But instant death in movies is just that, what they do in movies. The second shot while the guy was prone likely would have done less damage than the first, but only a complete examination of the corpse would say for sure.

The only seemingly instant death I have seen was a shot to the head, dead square. There are some ugly brutal videos that exist. And then you could argue that the victim was instantly rendered unconscious and dying.

[911boost]

The course I took was all about how you held the weapon from draw, your grip and pointing with your off hand thumb in a two handed grip. Think of it as walking the rounds onto target as you raised your arms. the first shot was taken down low and additional ones as you stopped near your chest or extended your arms.

It was effective, but would take a lot of training to stay that way and get better.

At the time I was working for a Marine, and he really enjoyed doing these types of things. Who was I to complain and is was free instruction and range time.

[Steve Carlton]

I thought the close in shooting in Extraction was very entertaining.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

I thought the close in shooting in Extraction was very entertaining.

Certainly!

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by Mike80911

At firearms training for the NYPD they do teach shooting from the hip, but only during close contact with the perp. With the non shooting hand being used to keep some distance between yourself and the perp. But never used if not in close contact. Today all of the criminals in movies shoot with the gun sideways and if you see actual shootings all of the criminals seem to have adopted this style. I will stick to using the sights and making the shot count.

[KFC911]

Though I hope to never find out, and never practice such. I have NO doubt that I could shoot from the hip at self-defense distances (say 10-15') in virtual darkness and hit center mass .... with any spoon I have ... wouldn't be a Diana tho'.

[Mike80911]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

Now I have to get me those sights for my Glock.

[look 171]

I don't shoot guns so I have no idea what I am talking about but I remember seeing this on utube. I have no idea why I clicked on it but was amazed how fast and accurate these guys are but not sure if this is relevant to this topic?

[jyl]

In January I’ll be joining a big range that offers all the shooting sports, including run and gun. I’m thinking it’ll be fun to do something other than bullseye.

[Jeff Higgins]

You are lucky. None of my local ranges allow anything but "bullseye" style paper target shooting. The "run and gun", or any sort of reactive target (gongs, falling plates, etc.) type of shooting is unavailable at any local range. Liability concerns in suburban areas.

Shooting at paper has its place, no doubt. Great for load development, functional testing, and basic shooting disciplines. Yet learning real defensive skills requires so much more. I have to drive two hours out of town to the nearest gravel pit to avail myself of that sort of practice.