Are vehicles now too complex ?

[Norm K]

By forcing consumers to purchase certain features whether wanted or not, it's clear that auto manufactures are trying to stay ahead of government intervention.

Maybe it's time, since the government is already involved in manufacturers' decisions to compel integration of these features, that the warranty on them needs to be treated like the federally mandated emissions warranty.

_

[shinrai]

I had no idea serial comm was mainstream until I went to install a trailer hitch on my wife's VW. What a PITA. We are regressing as a species - inventing crap we do not need that does not work and nobody knows how to fix it (or too pricey to fix) so we just throw it in the ocean.

[jhynesrockmtn]

Yes. My wife really, really wanted a Macan. As a car guy and Porsche fan, I obliged. It is a great driving vehicle. We bought a higher mileage but 1 owner, impeccably cared for 2015 S. It had roughly 60k on it July of 2019. She doesn't drive much. It's a 83k today. Luckily I insisted the dealership CPO it. They agreed. The PDK took a dump 4 months before the 2 year warranty was up. According to the dealership they don't diagnose beyond a computer check and don't repair. Replacement only. We dodged a bullet. Hopefully there are shops out there that can fix these as the retail cost of this repair was approaching $30k. Just a little shy of what we paid for it. The whole drive train has to come out.

[Dan J]

At my shop we now have "Death Row" Cars that the repairs exceed the value
Current inmates: 2017 Audi SQ5 57k water damage from leaking panorama sunroof 2016 MB GL TDI 87k engine oil leaks, Air ride, 2015 BMW 550 102K motor locked up, 2014 VW Passat TDI 98K wiring harness,
The cast changes monthly Our challenge is getting paid for diag and getting the cars off our property. It's a long ways from the 90's when you'd fix them until 300K

[fastfredracing]

Originally Posted by Dan J

At my shop we now have "Death Row" Cars that the repairs exceed the value
Current inmates: 2017 Audi SQ5 57k water damage from leaking panorama sunroof 2016 MB GL TDI 87k engine oil leaks, Air ride, 2015 BMW 550 102K motor locked up, 2014 VW Passat TDI 98K wiring harness,
The cast changes monthly Our challenge is getting paid for diag and getting the cars off our property. It's a long ways from the 90's when you'd fix them until 300K

I have just added "death row " to my shops nomenclature . I get these also . Funny, they are almost always German . Just had a newer BMW towed in X mas eve eve . threw chains, motor junk, 112 k .
I have not shopped this one yet, but from past experience , used motors are off the charts $ and new is hilarious

[pwd72s]

Those in Govt. who hate the automobile are doing it, guys....making long time car guys hate the new cars. But then, I've always liked looking at old cars and young women.

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by Dan J

At my shop we now have "Death Row" Cars that the repairs exceed the value
Current inmates: 2017 Audi SQ5 57k water damage from leaking panorama sunroof 2016 MB GL TDI 87k engine oil leaks, Air ride, 2015 BMW 550 102K motor locked up, 2014 VW Passat TDI 98K wiring harness,
The cast changes monthly Our challenge is getting paid for diag and getting the cars off our property. It's a long ways from the 90's when you'd fix them until 300K

You can’t get a used 550 mill for a reasonable price?

[Bill Douglas]

I call it "Introducing points of failure."

I live at the beach so salt air and minor corrosion all the time. A very electronic vehicle at my place would be an unusable wreak in six months.

Long live the SC and the Corolla.

[fastfredracing]

Originally Posted by Alan A

You can’t get a used 550 mill for a reasonable price?

About 5 k used, and figure 40 hours labor, plus every piece of plastic and hose you touch will need replaced , you will easily have 10k + into a car worth 15, and as a shop, once you have done this engine swap, you will own every check engine light and oil leak for the rest of the cars life .
Im out ....

[Alan A]

Ouch.

They aren’t bad looking cars - I keep seeing how cheap they are and thinking it would work as a second runaround rather than leasing something new every three.

I’ll stick to the warrantied stuff. At least it’s a fixed payment.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

are now required by the US DOT. Backup cameras, tire pressure monitors, airbags everywhere, ABS, traction control, and I believe even lane departure is required.

I have to ask the simple question:
Those are all covered by Insurance and the Owner if something goes wrong...ie those are all 100% private sector costs.

The goverment doesn't pay for my oil changes, just in case the engine seizes and locks the wheels, causing an accident.
That could happen..
Same for my new tires. And wipers. And suspension. And Momo safety grip. etc etc

In legal terms someone must have "standing" to be able to claim a tort and impose a cure.
(I can't claim injury for a stranger's slip-n-fall in a supermarket.)
In other words they must represent themselves as the Plaintiff and injured party.

[rfuerst911sc]

I am enjoying this discussion but the death row of cars is scary . And it's kind of what I thought would happen with high dollar repairs . To us old codgers the thought of buying a vehicle for 40k or more and have it disposable for a repair is hard to come to terms with . At least it is for me .

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

I call it "Introducing points of failure."

I live at the beach so salt air and minor corrosion all the time. A very electronic vehicle at my place would be an unusable wreak in six months.

Long live the SC and the Corolla.

How many tubes of dielectric grease do you go through?

[908/930]

I think the problem is this generation of automotive designers take the bus to work, and have absolutely no idea how to fix anything.

Fun fact, as far as I can tell my wife's 2017 BMW can not be placed in neutral without the engine running. Apparently for towing there is a link on the side of the transmission that must be repositioned, really handy if you want to roll the car two feet in the garage.

[hcoles]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

I call it "Introducing points of failure."

I live at the beach so salt air and minor corrosion all the time. A very electronic vehicle at my place would be an unusable wreak in six months.

Long live the SC and the Corolla.

It's not good near the beach. However, the auto companies go to some lengths to design the connector materials, pressures and enclosures to reduce issues with air contamination. If all is correctly assembled (big if) then those connections should last a good while maybe 15-20 years or more (that's a guess).

[ramonesfreak]

In order to change the battery in my car, half the engine bay has to be removed. I exaggerate but not by much….it ain’t easy. And then whatever reprogramming has to be done for the car to acknowledge the new battery.

What annoys me most is no more oil dipstick….i have to have the car run an oil level diagnostic test and am forced to believe what it tells me and certainly can’t see the oil to check for coolant

[ramonesfreak]

Originally Posted by stevej37

Many of the new electronic features are defeatable on my 22 Civic. I don't really like paying for features that are always turned off.

One feature that I never had before and I really like is...auto dimming high beams. It's very nice driving at night and not having to mess with dimming and back to highs.

I have this too and I like it. I had it on a Jeep and it didn’t work well but my Mini does it very well and never blinds anyone.

[Zeke]

I believe the auto industry would like us to lease cars and have their network care for them. That in itself doesn't directly address if they are too complicated, but it does address some of the complaints about inability to service a car yourself.

Even the 90's cars are quite reliant on computers and all of those electronics are getting old.

The question might be restated as, "Are cars becoming a touch screen appliance now?"

Yes.

[Dan J]

Originally Posted by fastfredracing

About 5 k used, and figure 40 hours labor, plus every piece of plastic and hose you touch will need replaced , you will easily have 10k + into a car worth 15, and as a shop, once you have done this engine swap, you will own every check engine light and oil leak for the rest of the cars life .
Im out ....

This

[john70t]

Originally Posted by ramonesfreak

In order to change the battery in my car, half the engine bay has to be removed.

The popular Prius has no mechanical trunk lock on the outside.
No emergency escape handle on the inside.
12V battery for starter/fans/lights inside the passenger cabin. Sealed of course. Got a defective OEM one recently.

Use fob spring key to manually open front door. Open back door and fold down seats. Sit inside and remove big panels to access battery way in the corner. Hopefully nothing big and heavy is already being stored in the trunk.