Are vehicles now too complex ?

[hcoles]

Originally Posted by Zeke

I believe the auto industry would like us to lease cars and have their network care for them. That in itself doesn't directly address if they are too complicated, but it does address some of the complaints about inability to service a car yourself.

Even the 90's cars are quite reliant on computers and all of those electronics are getting old.

The question might be restated as, "Are cars becoming a touch screen appliance now?"

Yes.

It's a wonder the touch screens aren't considered a distraction.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by hcoles

It's a wonder the touch screens aren't considered a distraction.

They ARE a distraction. It's a gauge of the strength of the automobile lobby that they haven't been outlawed. My Volt has so many bells and whistles that have nothing to do with getting from point A to point B comfortably that it's ridiculous, and most of them are associated with the touch screen.

[fastfredracing]

I agree 100% and struggle to see the difference between texting on my phone, or messing with the 400 different apps, settings and screens on any modern vehicle .

[masraum]

I've certainly been wondering about this topic myself for a while.

I don't necessarily rue the advent of a lot of the new safety features. I enjoy my '08 Boxster, I would still love an '88 911, and I'd be happy to have a '68 911, but some of the features on my wife's '18 Outback are pretty nice. Her adaptive cruise is pretty cool. The lane nanny is OK too.

When that stuff starts breaking, as long as you can just "not use it" fine (assuming at some point you don't want to get it fixed). But what really has me wondering is stuff like the electronic differentials, 4 wheel steering, computerized transmissions, auto stop/start, and some of the other stuff that seems like it could seriously degrade/hamper or completely kill the drivability of a vehicle.

Motors grenading, that's not a function of "new and complicated" that's always been a thing and could be a thing in any age. Yes, obviously, "interference" engines are more of a problem, and that's more common these days, but that's probably only due to the anemic personality of most vehicles from the early 70s through the 80s/90s that had super low compression, low power, low octane engines.

But then a modern automatic trans is light years ahead of the automatics from the 70s, so are we really complaining about that? Yeah, a manual is a manual is a manual. They are fun and engaging and my preference 99% of the time, but I understand that's not always the case for everyone.

I don't like the auto stop/start (neither of our cars have it, but I've driven 2-3 that do). But the feature does save gas. No, if your car does it, you're not going to double your fuel economy, but by putting it on all cars, my guess is that tens of thousands of gallons of gas can/will be saved over the course of a year, maybe more.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

from the pic thread...

[MMARSH]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

My 85 911 will happily start up while in gear. The drivers of the 1980s had to have brains. With lots of idiots starting cars while in gear, now it is required to press on the brake pedal and have it in neutral or park to start. Idiots that never look at tire pressures caused the mandate for tire pressure monitors.

Thats interesting but I think wrong, my 69 Pontiac won't start in gear unless the clutch is depressed. Neutral safety switches have been around for at least 55 years....

Three of our cars will go into park if the door is open or you open the door at low speeds. Drives me nuts when I'm shuffling cars around the driveway.

One of my vehicles has that auto stop/start feature. I hate it. Luckily it's a simple press of a button to disable which I do everytime right after I start the car.

[stevej37]

I have the auto stop/start on the Civic. It's so quiet and smooth that I never hear it working.
In the car wash...I heard it working a few times.

[Bill Douglas]

Originally Posted by hcoles

It's not good near the beach. However, the auto companies go to some lengths to design the connector materials, pressures and enclosures to reduce issues with air contamination. If all is correctly assembled (big if) then those connections should last a good while maybe 15-20 years or more (that's a guess).

Thanks, that's interesting. Im less nervous now about owning a modern high tech car.

Paul, I just use vasaline and only put it on places where I've had to undo it due to a failure. That and all the grounds/earths on the car. I seem to be forever fixing, cleaning etc my trailer connections

[Arizona_928]

I’m glad you enjoy the new safety features.

If I’m not in control of my vehicle…. I’m not driving. That includes the third pedal coming in clutch.

[JavaBrewer]

IMO we are in a transition period with technology. The last 20 years saw a massive rush to get IT into everyday consumer products. Some of that went well and others lacking. Sure all the driver aides and gizmos have a net positive but the real failure is the human factors UI experience. Much of what is on the market today is frankly over complicated and frustrating to navigate. As already mentioned my '86 911 was very well placed and thought out. I could adjust anything without having to take my eyes off the road. I think in the next 10 years or so the new stuff will be better thought out. I hope at least

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by MMARSH

Thats interesting but I think wrong, my 69 Pontiac won't start in gear unless the clutch is depressed. Neutral safety switches have been around for at least 55 years....

Three of our cars will go into park if the door is open or you open the door at low speeds. Drives me nuts when I'm shuffling cars around the driveway.

One of my vehicles has that auto stop/start feature. I hate it. Luckily it's a simple press of a button to disable which I do everytime right after I start the car.

NOPE. Ask anyone with a 911 before the 964. My 74 914 2.0 was the same way. There is no switch anywhere except the ignition switch to control the starter.

My wife's Macan has auto stop start, but it is really easy to disable from the key fob, and it is disabled for her car.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Arizona_928

I’m glad you enjoy the new safety features.

If I’m not in control of my vehicle…. I’m not driving. That includes the third pedal coming in clutch.

Most of the modern safety features still leave you in control of the car.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by JavaBrewer

my '86 911 was very well placed and thought out. I could adjust anything without having to take my eyes off the road.

I always thought that my old '88 was a great cockpit, gauges, controls, everything.

My '08 boxster is nearly as good, but not quite. The dumbing down of the gauges is the only bad/frustrating thing. There's the large central tach (good) with a digital speed read-out in the bottom (good). Then there's a large speedo to the left of the tach (bad, NEVER look at it). Then there's no oil temp, oil pressure, voltmeter which would be the perfect multigauge to replace the useless speedo. I also liked the old oil level gauge in my old 911. The ONLY method for checking the oil in the boxster is a pain (no dipstick or even any way to retrofit a dipstick).

[masraum]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

My wife's Macan has auto stop start, but it is really easy to disable from the key fob, and it is disabled for her car.

Why? Is it dangerous? Did it cause a problem? Or is it just different, and you didn't like it?

I get it, I don't like it either. But not liking change is not necessarily a good thing.

[MMARSH]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

NOPE. Ask anyone with a 911 before the 964. My 74 914 2.0 was the same way. There is no switch anywhere except the ignition switch to control the starter.

My wife's Macan has auto stop start, but it is really easy to disable from the key fob, and it is disabled for her car.

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. I wasn't saying you were wrong about your 911 specifically. I've had several myself. Just that neutral safety switches came around way before the 80s. Maybe it was a domestic vehicle thing.

Being able to permanently disable the start/stop feature would be great, wish I could do that.

[MMARSH]

I'm curious what the average age of people on this board are. It seems that alot of the people here are just old and really resistant to technology and change.

[908/930]

Originally Posted by MMARSH

I'm curious what the average age of people on this board are. It seems that alot of the people here are just old and really resistant to technology and change.

I am pretty sure most are over 50 and have the ability to drive without the car trying to correct. I still think airbags are just there to add cost after an accident.

[MMARSH]

Originally Posted by 908/930

and have the ability to drive without the car trying to correct. I still think airbags are just there to add cost after an accident.

Ya think! Why because this is a Porsche board and we are car enthusiasts? I used to be a Driving instructor with the POC many years ago..I instructed many Porsche owners /enthusiasts who have zero business turning off any of the driving aids on a modern Porsche. All of them were excellent drivers, just ask them, they would tell you......

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by 908/930

i am pretty sure most are over 50 and have the ability to drive without the car trying to correct. I still think airbags are just there to add cost after an accident.

+1

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by MMARSH

Ya think! Why because this is a Porsche board and we are car enthusiasts? I used to be a Driving instructor with the POC many years ago..I instructed many Porsche owners /enthusiasts who have zero business turning off any of the driving aids on a modern Porsche. All of them were excellent drivers, just ask them, they would tell you......

Idiot > p-car