Any information about the Pacific Palisades Fire

[red 928]

When I see things like this I get angry and frustrated because
I believe most of these fires could be prevented.

I am convinced that the majority of these wild fires
are the result of arson,
started by a very small group of serial arsonists.
Like a handful of them.
If you go back 10 or 15 years and map out the locations
there are obvious patterns.
Not only in north and south cali but also in the PNW and rockies.
We have seen swarms of fires in certain areas
and not in others that are just as vulnerable.
On a map it looks to me like Thousand oaks, malibu,
pacific palisades and alta dena are close to each other
And all have burned recently. Some many times.
I recall reading a story saying there was a swarm of fires in a neighboring county
over the past decade but they caught a guy and those fires stopped.

I can think of no other crime that is more heinous or
deserving of capital punishment than this.
But these monsters are rarely caught so they
continue the carnage.
They watch the sensationalistic news coverage
telling the population that the winds are coming and of the
red flag warnings and their urges grow uncontrollably. the itch grows.

The ENTIRE population of these areas should be hammering
on their governments to implement comprehensive monitoring,
surveillance, and prevention in vulnerable areas.
If they can deploy every available firefighter and LEO AFTER
the fire gets out of control, why can't they do the same to
PREVENT it from starting?
Facial recognition cameras, license plate readers,
neighborhood watch-type of volunteer groups, whatever it takes.
How about an FBI task force with the sole responsibility
of taking these sicko idiots out?
That would be cheaper and easier than what it costs if the
fires are not prevented.
They would only have to jail a few of them to make a huge difference.

Out of sight out of mind,
a week from now the governments will be back squabbling
how to squander resources and not preventing
this type of catastrophe.

Now this next part might hurt some feelings.
We could wait to discuss this until well after the effects
have faded but that's part of the problem.
So, I'll tread lightly on the responsibility of
building or buying houses in areas with really high fire danger ratings,
or the fact that homes in these dangerous areas COULD be built
to be made more fire-resistant but are not.
But if I were inclined to buy a multi-million dollar home in one of these areas
I think I would be able to afford spark arresters on attic ventilation,
stucco and cement boards siding with no exposed wood facia or trim,
Fire proof shutters on windows, no flammable vegetation,
home fogging sprinkler systems with self-contained water supply (pool or tank), etc.
I could design a home that would not burn when exposed to wild fire.
Why don't they?
Because insurance is cheaper.

If allowed, the insurance companies would solve this by jacking
up the rates in high danger areas enough to curb the spread
of houses into the dangerous hills, but government regulations
interfere with the free market balance.
So insurance companies bail and the burden is spread to all homeowners.

Then there's the illegal homeless encampments that are ignored.
Too many fires start in these encampments.
bulldozers are not hard to get, I'd solve that problem in a week.

Bad decisions have consequences.
Decades of bad decisions have compounded the dangers and
hard, tough and courageous decisions will be necessary
to correct them.
Continuing to do what has been done will only make it worse.

[Deschodt]

I never understood why (in any country) there isn't a branch of the military equipped for firefighting and natural disaster relief. Not like FEMA, like a dedicated branch with its own equipment (planes, vehicles, tech) on standby to go anywhere in the country and nip that stuff in the bud, and also work on prevention the rest of the year... We have a space force for Pete's sake! Also the army corps of engineers (not sure how that works exactly). The world is CLEARLY changing and fires/flood/hurricanes are the new threat. I bet folks who want a career and not necessarily wanna be shot at would join a branch of the military that is there to help people, save lives and land, maybe have its own research on firefighting tech (gov't funded) and it would likely cost less than a squadron of F35 or one more nuclear sub or another tax break for Elon.... Probably an unpopular opinion here or one that shows a lack of understanding of the military, but I don't see why not - military command structure, pilot training, and mil spec equipment would really help where civilian equipment is limited/grounded (picture a squadron of converted galaxy water bombing LA yesterday, before it expanded, when civilian stuff cannot fly)...

[MikeSid]

The problem with a nationwide (i.e. military) approach to fighting these fires is that the cost is borne by the entire nation and the problem is largely regional. Not a lot of tree fires in plains states.

Whereas the Army Corp of Engineers can respond to any number of problems nationwide and provide a solution or assistance, and this is an appropriate use of nationwide tax dollars.

[craigster59]

Originally Posted by speeder

Many thousands.

And having experienced losing a home (cabin) to fire the emotional loss is devastating. I'm sure these people will deal with a loss no one should have to go through.

And those lucky enough to have been spared that loss will have to live for the next few years in an area that looks like armageddon. Burnt out shells of homes, trees and hillsides. A constant reminder of that awful event.

[craigster59]

I've always thought that California's "high speed rail" money could have been better spent on those air tankers and helos that we always seem to be waiting on during these events.

I may be wrong but it seems we lease them from Canada, waiting for their fire season to subside before we have access. We could lease them out to Montana, Wyoming, Colorado and other states who suffer the same yearly disasters that we do.

[Tobra]

The "high speed rail" money would have been better spent if they gave it all to drunken sailors

We have military divisions set up for this. The call them Sea Bees

I wonder how many of those people had their insurance cancelled in the last 6 months

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Deschodt

I never understood why (in any country) there isn't a branch of the military equipped for firefighting and natural disaster relief. Not like FEMA, like a dedicated branch with its own equipment (planes, vehicles, tech) on standby to go anywhere in the country and nip that stuff in the bud, and also work on prevention the rest of the year... We have a space force for Pete's sake! Also the army corps of engineers (not sure how that works exactly). The world is CLEARLY changing and fires/flood/hurricanes are the new threat. I bet folks who want a career and not necessarily wanna be shot at would join a branch of the military that is there to help people, save lives and land, maybe have its own research on firefighting tech (gov't funded) and it would likely cost less than a squadron of F35 or one more nuclear sub or another tax break for Elon.... Probably an unpopular opinion here or one that shows a lack of understanding of the military, but I don't see why not - military command structure, pilot training, and mil spec equipment would really help where civilian equipment is limited/grounded (picture a squadron of converted galaxy water bombing LA yesterday, before it expanded, when civilian stuff cannot fly)...

The military is there to protect the USA from foreign threats, and fight the wars. Not home safety. They often help out in a disaster and call it training. And any military branch would cost billions in taxpayer money, and likely be useless in a quick response. Maybe a week or four after the disaster they would be mobilized.

[JavaBrewer]

“High speed rail” I have major gripes but let’s keep this discussion in PPOT.

Heading home from work soon and sort of dreading the latest news of the day. Thankfully North San Diego is having very mild SA winds today.

[astrochex]

My coworkers family lost their home of 65 years. Thankfully, they got out in time.

[jyl]

When I lived in LA (1985-1997), we had the Big Rock fire in Malibu [edit: I guess was the Topanga fire? not sure any more]. Multiple of my partners lost their homes, all their belongings and photographs, everything but the shirts on their backs. It was terrible and this looks like that multiplied manyfold.

The foothills in this part of California are steep and rugged, with narrow canyons loaded with fuel and very few roads for access. When a big fire is whipped by 60 mph Santa Ana winds, it tears through the canyons and roars into the developed areas in no time, where it finds more fuel and keeps going. Even with lots of warning and time to gather thousands of firefighters and all the aerial assets, these fires are almost impossible to stop if Mother Nature, fuel, and wind want to keep going. Burning materials will fly a mile and ignite fires where they land, which are quickly whipped up and continue the advance.

Its kind of like the Helene floods and slides. Whole divisions of troops and equipment couldn't have done anything.

I was in South Lake Tahoe during the Caldor Fire. Plenty of warning, the fire was continually tracked as it burned its way northeast toward the lake, seemed like all the available fire-fighting forces in the state were mustered, urban fire departments sent engines and crews and CalFire was completely mobilized. They could sometimes get the fire to detour around high-value points, other times it just jumped over those points, but there was no "stopping" it as long as the fuel as abundant and dense. It was just luck - wind direction and intensity - that spared South Lake Tahoe.

Edit: CalFire is not small. 1,000 engines, 40+ air, 13,000 ish personnel. And you know every FD in LA County is sending the men/women and equipment they can.

[craigster59]

Moonshadows, always one of the great older restaurants is gone. I also heard Reel Inn, a place I used to frequent is also gone.

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Wet winter grows a bunch of fuel, they stopped doing anything about that years ago. Dry, then windy and Bob's your uncle

Manufactured.

Prescribe burn that junk and move on with life. But noo… weather channel needs to be more dramatic and get the views since the legacy media has

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by Deschodt

I never understood why (in any country) there isn't a branch of the military equipped for firefighting and natural disaster relief. Not like FEMA, like a dedicated branch with its own equipment (planes, vehicles, tech) on standby to go anywhere in the country and nip that stuff in the bud, and also work on prevention the rest of the year... We have a space force for Pete's sake! Also the army corps of engineers (not sure how that works exactly). The world is CLEARLY changing and fires/flood/hurricanes are the new threat. I bet folks who want a career and not necessarily wanna be shot at would join a branch of the military that is there to help people, save lives and land, maybe have its own research on firefighting tech (gov't funded) and it would likely cost less than a squadron of F35 or one more nuclear sub or another tax break for Elon.... Probably an unpopular opinion here or one that shows a lack of understanding of the military, but I don't see why not - military command structure, pilot training, and mil spec equipment would really help where civilian equipment is limited/grounded (picture a squadron of converted galaxy water bombing LA yesterday, before it expanded, when civilian stuff cannot fly)...

A military’s mission isn’t to fight domestic wild fires…. That’s the California penal system.

Want to know a fun fact? Military installations will run prescribed burns so this doesn’t happen. Consider it a risk assessment that always pans out.

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by MikeSid

The problem with a nationwide (i.e. military) approach to fighting these fires is that the cost is borne by the entire nation and the problem is largely regional. Not a lot of tree fires in plains states.

Whereas the Army Corp of Engineers can respond to any number of problems nationwide and provide a solution or assistance, and this is an appropriate use of nationwide tax dollars.

Outside of an emergency, California can’t afford the army corps.

[jyl]

Hard to "prescribe burn" in that area.

Helene, Milton, now Palisade/Eaton are going to be real tests for insurance. Rates in high risk areas are going to quadruple, or more, for limited coverage.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-01-08/los-angeles-fires-become-existential-test-for-california-s-stopgap-insurer

Even rates in low risk areas will go up. A friend is on his condo board here in Portland, their property insurer declined to renew, they had to find new insurance, premium tripled.

[varmint]

Originally Posted by craigster59

Moonshadows, always one of the great older restaurants is gone. I also heard Reel Inn, a place I used to frequent is also gone.

Can’t remember how many dates I took to the reel inn. Damn. Now I’m starting to worry about the rock store.


Any idea on what started this yet? Lots of speculation, but nothing definitive.

[jyl]

Do I have this right - the Palisades fire has burned to Santa Monica as far as San Vincente Blvd, and the wind is out of the north 30-40 mph? Asking - not saying - hoping not true.

[Cajundaddy]

This is just terrifying. With the wind speeds the fire is burning horizontally at maybe 3000*F and advancing at 30mph. Tough to get out of the way even if the roads are open.

My cousin lives off Kanan near the Rock Store and so far they have a bunch of trees down but are not yet affected by the fires. One more night of winds and it is forecast to die down tomorrow AM.
Whew!

[creaturecat]

Canadian water bombers showed up.
pronto. ...... in spite of recent invasion threats.

[kevin993]

Not good, friends. Don't like what we're hearing from friends. Altadena and Palisades appear wiped out. This isn't just celebrities or high dollar fancy homes. Lots of neighborhoods, schools, churches, etc. Winds are still rocking and rolling. Long way from being done. Best wishes to all impacted.