Composite Decking or Real wood
 

I'm in the process of rebuilding the deck on my cabin in Idaho and need some advice regarding the surface.
I've always used 2 x 6 cedar on my decks and have gotten plenty of years out of it. This deck is 22 yo. and has done well in a very wet climate. Now however the price of cedar is exorbitant so I'm thinking of using a composite. The deck is built with 16" centers, is 450 sq ft. in size and is 4' off the ground.
My main concerns are warpage and the surface getting slick. I also have to consider all the extra costs associated with composite trim/finishing pieces and the fasteners.
Any suggestions or advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

All we do now is composite. Hidden fasteners. I like these, as you can remove a middle board if necessary.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1751065823.jpg

Border and stairs I use boards w/o the slot, and put slots in where needed with a biscuit jointer tool.

We also use the rubber joist tape on the top of the old joists, it really extends their life.

We have a composite deck that came with the house. We like it, no maintenance required. After 3 winters of heavy snow it still looks good. The only negative is when the sun hits the deck in the summer the deck gets hot. You can’t walk on it barefoot.

Yup, burn hot.

Dad911 how does the composite hold up to outdoor furniture being dragged across it ? Like chairs at a table , you have to drag the chair out , sit in it and then drag yourself forward to be at the table . The reason I haven't gone composite is the horror stories of scratching the surface , water getting in and then it swells and looks like crap .

I’m re doing my large deck and I’m staying with redwood. Southern exposure makes a composite way too hot. Existing deck has lasted 28 years and that’s without any joist taping. With pressure treated joists and posts, joist tape this deck will outlive me. Also, no tariffs on redwood products. Comes from California.

Composite doesn't scratch as easily as wood and will not dent like real wood does. The new versions look and perform better than the predecessors. It does get hot in full sun. I always frame joists12" on center for composite because in full sun it will sag a bit with 16" on center support. You could double up the joists on existing framing and the deck would stay flat and also feel super strong. And like Dad911 does, taping the tops of the joists will give you a deck that will last. You can also just staple 2" strips of 30lb. tar paper if you happen to have a roll. I built a redwood awning with 2x2 spaced 2" over a deck I built for my daughter and you can walk barefoot on it on a hot day but still let's plenty of light in. I used long 4x4 posts to support both the awning and the railing. I prefer the look of the redwood composite with some dark streaking best. It's looks real.

I haven't noticed a problem. I'm also anal about making sure the plastic feet on furniture are all good. I have not seen swell at the cuts, and the color coat is probably close to 1/16". I don't see many long term, but mine is 5 years old and my sister's deck is 16 years old. On her stairs and drink rails I mitered the corners and ends and sealed with matching caulk. I thought that might have been an issue at the time, but it's been fine.

Our pressure treated 16x 30 was 15 yrs old. I got tired of resealing & pressure washing. Years of ocean climate was rotting out edges & steps. Priced a composite, no real maintenance. Yikes. Contractor suggested concrete. Thicker than my driveway, never going anywhere, easy to clean & about 25% less.

I have heard that composite does not last that long. I have had a cedar deck that lasted thirty years. We replaced that deck with pressure treated and it has been good. I made the mistake of staining the pressure treated deck too soon. It is peeling now so have to decide what to do with it.

We have had our composite deck for about 20 years. It's starting to show some wear on the main area where you walk. I hose it down every couple years with some mild soap and water.
Other that that, zero maintenance.

I did manage to break one of the solid steps last year, when I was running up the stairs and put my entire weight on one of the boards (2 boards per step)

Our neighbour seems to be sanding and trying to seal his wood deck every 2-3 years. I think it's pressure treated.

If it ever needs replacing, I will be using composite again.

Definitely do composite, did ours about 5 years ago and It’s perfect.

Composite is longer lasting and will keep the house cleaner as well. Wood dust from redwood baking in the sun gets tracked in.

Did ours a few years back. Very expensive and well worth it. Tips: use minimum spacing for joists, buy good quality boards and consider lighter colors if you’re worried about hot surface. Ours is a mid tone brown and gets super hot mid day in summer.

The lighter colors (gray) get hot too. Umbrellas or awnings are a necessity on hot days with composite

well so much for light colors to control heat! We put one of those water hog mats on the outside part of the back door so the dogs have a place to stand off the decking.

edit: it also gets very slippery for dogs. my boys chase each other all the time and occasionally come flying up onto the deck and aren't able to stop before they encounter furniture.

Dogs hate the stuff. You just have to keep most of the sun off it. It's the only complaint I have of composite

We have a large covered front porch (60 X 12 overall) and a 16' square deck out back, all Georgia yellow pine (treated) Original to 25 year old house, I have replaced a few boards here and there but not many. Hot summers and wet periods, but boards don't get hot in the sun, no problem for dog or walking in bare feet. I keep them painted with deck paint. Boards (16 X 6) got quite pricey back a while ago ($60. per!!) but have since gone back down to reasonable territory. I have no experience with composites, just what I know of the neighbor's decks-I think it is critical that the composites are installed correctly, otherwise they can warp.

what would 20x20 composite deck materials cost?

I've built several composite decks and there are many clip systems. They have improved greatly over the years. If you're attaching a fascia board to a perimeter face, clips won't work. Use matching colored screws and not finish nails as they will only hold so long due to expansion and contraction. Don't ask me how I discovered this fact :^)

We have furniture, gas bbq, and a propane fire table. We drag the furniture and move the fire table. No scratches and we get lots of afternoon sun and the colour hasn’t faded

Prices of different products vary of course. Like everything else, you get what you pay for. The more expensive stuff looks better. I would recommend a raised grain product. It looks way more real and is less slippery when wet

Something to be aware of...rain water will remain on the surface of a composite deck longer than on natural wood.

I used TimberTech composite decking with raised grain that has the look of natural wood. And yes, joists on 12" centers for stability. Makes the deck feel very solid when walking on it...like walking on concrete.

Not my deck, but this is what I used ↓

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1751162276.jpg

IDK if available for all manufacturers, but for borders, steps and fascia (and azek house trim) we use the screws with color matching plugs(search cortex plug).

I put in composite 3 years ago. Still looks fine. It needs 2x support beams compared to wood though.

Trex!

Thanks for all your responses. I will be doing the install myself so every bit of advise is very helpful. I've done plenty of wood work but my tools are a bit limited at the cabin.
The supplier told me that composite expands lengthwise quite a bit so how tight should the butt joints be? The deck is 32' long so I can use two 16' lengths and have one seam down the middle (that's what I did with the original cedar) or I can offset the seams by alternating runs of one 16' and two 8' lengths with a run of two 16' lengths. Bear in mind that my joists are on 16" centers.
As to the costs: I was quoted $65.92 2 x 6 x 16 cedar ($4200 total), $41.44 for a Fiberon board ($2600) and $36.10 for Trex ($2300). Both prices for the composites are for their entry level products. The prices change daily so the quote was only good for 3 days!
Thanks again for the input.

I would put a board perpendicular down the middle instead of lining up joints and use 2-16' boards. Then you have no but joints. You'll just need to add blocking to the one bay.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1751218325.jpg
(not my deck, pic from online)

We also border the decks so you don't see endgrain. Or hide ends with a fascia board.

If you use the clips like I showed above, the boards can expand and contract.

I've done a few decks over the years and have a few suggestions:
1) Stagger your end joints, AND add an additional joist at the joints. so that two boards don't land on one joist, (which requires screws or nails very close to the end of the boards, which encourages splitting at the ends and moisture intrusion/rot. So install two joists, about 3-4 inches apart at the ends. This also helps the life of the PT framing.
2) Textured decking is particularly important, where the deck is on the north side, or heavily shaded, which might allow moisture to stand and encourage moss/mildew to form - making things dangerously slippery. Surfaced wood can be treacherous when wet.
3) I think the concealed fastening systems are worth a serious consideration, for appearance and ease of installation. some of the surface installed screws can strip out the heads, making installation and or removal difficult.
4) The later version of TREX, with the improved surface layer seems to be fine on 16 inch joist spacing, compared to the old version, significantly more colorfast, textured and stronger.

chris

^ I think you mean add blocking between the joists at the butt joints.
I would double up the joists for composite. 16" on center seems fine at first but in the heat of the summer those boards turn to noodles and you have a wash board road.
Chalk line to start and check again for straightness every 4'

I just ripped off our old deck boards and replaced with Deckorator brand composite boards from Lowes. They were 16' and I only needed 14' I bought 25 of them for around $30 each. Old deck boards were treated 2 x 4. Joists were on 24" centers so I added new joists in between. I used the plastic hidden T universal fasteners from Lowes. I did not do the picture framing technique and instead bought and stained treated 5/4 deck boards for fascia to cover the ends. I went with 1/4" gaps everywhere. Looks pretty good. Just need to finish up the landscaping and build a new pergola/lean to roof over it. It is a bit slick when wet but wife is happy so.... win.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1751293011.jpg

Has composite come down in price from a few years ago?

I got about the cheapest stuff I could for my little 12 x 14' deck above. It was about $1000 for the the deck board and fasteners (not including my 7 new 2 x 8 PT joists, hangars, 5/4 fascia boards and stain). I thought that was pretty expensive for a crappy little deck. That said, some other brands of composite decking was nearly double.
Wife wanted composite so that is what she got.

I can't even imagine how much some folks are paying for large fancy multi level composite decks these days. Traditional 5/4 deck boards with fasteners would have cost me maybe half or slightly less.

^^^ Tim do the hidden fasteners provide the gap between boards ? Or did you have to do something extra to provide the gap ?

I’ve been in building supply business all my life. Yes I’m partial to wood but let me tell you that none of the composite stuff will look like new in 15 yrs. Everything has pros and its cons.

My deck is red cedar faces south and naturally gone grey and with that I have close to zero maintenance.

I face nailed it on with galvanized spiral finish nails and when time to replace peel them off and repeat.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1751332305.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1751332336.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1751332364.jpg

Yes, the fasteners are 1/4" thick and space the boards.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Trex-Universal-200-sq-ft-Coverage-Black-Clip-Hidden-Fasteners-360-Count/1001364364

I like to put some innovation into all my work so I really want to try the composite but I don't think I'll be able to. All the framing is based on lumber 5 1/2" (5 3/4 " gapped) widths, the composite I'd be using (Fiberon) is just 5 3/16" (5 3/8" gapped). That 3/8" gapped difference over 25 - 30 boards screws everything up. 5 1/2" composite is available from a different manufacturer (Trex) but the colors are brutal. The offset design of the deck with one half being 16" deep and the other only 12' deep also complicates the retrofit.
I'll keep trying to come up with a solution for the composite but right now it looks like I'm stuck with cedar.
Here's what it looks like now.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1751383995.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1751383995.jpg

Composite decking will work just fine. Double up your joists and cap them all with paper. Add lots of blocking and maybe sister on a rim joist if needed at the end. Check the health of the existing joists at the house with a screwdriver, they look suspect. I would also add a beam across the middle while it's open. It'll feel way more solid

Don't overthink the board width, start on the outside and put a rip by the house if needed.

This.

While the decking is off, it would be a good idea to make sure grade pitches away from the house, and maybe put down some plastic and stone.