Bear Rifles

[HardDrive]

Putting aside the animal, I would be comfortable taking prey up to 350-400lbs with a .30-06. Beyond that more kinetic woof is required.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

BTW does anyone know what type and caliber & rifle is used in the scene? I'm guessing something rather large.

You might be surprised at just how inadequate their rifles were. They were all round ball shooters, usually somewhere between .45 and .54 caliber. A. 45 round ball weighs about 147 grains, . 50 about 180 grains, and .54 about 230. Round ball rifles generally start their projectiles at about 1,800 -2,000 fps at best. A round ball has the worst ballistic coefficient of any projectile imaginable. At 100 yards they will have already dropped below 900 fps. So, essentially, even at the larger end of the scale, about the same energy at 100 yards as the.45 ACP at the muzzle. Hardly adequate "bear medicine" in anyone's book.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by stevej37

I'd want a 10 gauge shotgun with triple aught buckshot

I feel like buckshot is not ideal against a BIG bear ready for winter hibernation, but maybe taking 9 "small" shot at a time would be a deterent for a bear.

[911 Rod]

Don't they make short barrel O/U with a shot gun and center fire?
They would break down for an easier carry too?

[Cajundaddy]

Caveat: Personally not a bear hunter and I am sure Jeff forgot more about bear guns than I will ever know.

That said, a rifle is a tool and the best tool is one that is well-suited for the job at hand. For a bear gun, range, penetration, stopping power, and consistent shot placement all matter. For hunting black bear at 200+ yards I would think a 30-06 or 300 Win mag with the right loads would be effective.

At 100 yards in the brush the 45-70 is a proven choice for both black and brown bear and one of the most-chosen guide guns for defense in bear country. You still need good shot placement but these deliver a stout projectile with high stopping power.

At 30 yards or less I would favor a 12GA for defense. Either a slug or a double aught delivering 8 x 9mm projectiles into a fist-sized pattern with one trigger pull. This represents a whole lotta "stop that" to an aggressive bear. We live in Idaho and the northern half where we often get out in the woods is griz country. I hope I never find myself in a situation where this is needed.

[HardDrive]

I have tried to come up with excuses to by .45-70, but I don't really have a need. And I doubt it would be a gun I would like to spend a lot time on the range with. My father decided to give up hunting about 3 years ago, and I hung it up as well. I have been tempted, but I don't enjoy hunting as much without my Dad. Don't really enjoy hunting in Ohio, I like northern Michigan. If I ever do go back out in rifle country, my .30-06 has served me well. I have a Harrington and Richardson single shot 12 gauge slug gun for Ohio.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by masraum

I feel like buckshot is not ideal against a BIG bear ready for winter hibernation, but maybe taking 9 "small" shot at a time would be a deterent for a bear.

I have no personal experience here. From what I gather from those who do, however, buckshot - 00 or 000 buckshot - is the way to go. Many experienced guides, and some I hunted with, carried their shotguns with a slug up first, followed up by buckshot. The idea was the slug would be the first thing they would hit with at the extremes of "defensive" range, then buckshot as the range closed.

No one on Earth would ever consider any size birdshot for this duty. It simply would not make it through their skulls, fur, hides, layers of fat, and muscle. It's not even recommended for home defense by those in the know.

Originally Posted by 911 Rod

Don't they make short barrel O/U with a shot gun and center fire?
They would break down for an easier carry too?

The old H&R "Handi Rifle". It's been produced by a number of manufacturers under different names. Unfortunately, it's usually a .223, .22 Hornet, or .30-30 barrel over a twelve gauge. Wouldn't be my first choice. I think they were marketed as more of a "survival" gun.

Originally Posted by Cajundaddy

Caveat: Personally not a bear hunter and I am sure Jeff forgot more about bear guns than I will ever know.

That said, a rifle is a tool and the best tool is one that is well-suited for the job at hand. For a bear gun, range, penetration, stopping power, and consistent shot placement all matter. For hunting black bear at 200+ yards I would think a 30-06 or 300 Win mag with the right loads would be effective.

Absolutely. Lots of hunters just bring a .30-'06. With today's premium bullets, it's a better choice than ever. And, remember, one will always have a guide, by law, in Alaska or Canada, unless one is a resident.

Shot placement trumps everything. Granted, the bullet must be capable of adequate penetration, but put it in the wrong place, and all bets are off. Much like real estate - "location, location, location".

Originally Posted by 911 Rod

At 100 yards in the brush the 45-70 is a proven choice for both black and brown bear and one of the most-chosen guide guns for defense in bear country. You still need good shot placement but these deliver a stout projectile with high stopping power.

That seems to be the popular choice these days. Pretty hard to go wrong with one.

Originally Posted by 911 Rod

At 30 yards or less I would favor a 12GA for defense. Either a slug or a double aught delivering 8 x 9mm projectiles into a fist-sized pattern with one trigger pull. This represents a whole lotta "stop that" to an aggressive bear. We live in Idaho and the northern half where we often get out in the woods is griz country. I hope I never find myself in a situation where this is needed.

Most folks not actively hunting carry something along the lines of a 12 gauge pump or autoloader with the afore mentioned slug then buckshot loading.

Originally Posted by HardDrive

I have tried to come up with excuses to by .45-70, but I don't really have a need. And I doubt it would be a gun I would like to spend a lot time on the range with. My father decided to give up hunting about 3 years ago, and I hung it up as well. I have been tempted, but I don't enjoy hunting as much without my Dad. Don't really enjoy hunting in Ohio, I like northern Michigan. If I ever do go back out in rifle country, my .30-06 has served me well. I have a Harrington and Richardson single shot 12 gauge slug gun for Ohio.

You're overthinking this. There is a very blurry line between "need" and "want"...

[John Rogers]

Several years ago a couple fellows came out to our South Bay Rod & Gun Club with brand new 1853 Sharps chambered in 45-70 from the good folks up in Big Timber Montana and they had waited for over 3 years for their guns. Both had 6 boxes of full bore heavy duty hunting loads at $50 a box for 10 rounds. Their intent was to get deer and or elk up in the Northern CA mountains.

Soooo after 3 shots each BOTH could barely move their right arm at the shoulder and I went over to see if I could help. I was shooting my Sharps and a Rolling Block and had several target loads with 540 grain pure lead bullets, 68 grains of Goex FFG so I offered some for them to try and they both loved the black powder idea. One fellow got on the phone right then and ordered half a dozen boxes of black powder loads for hunting. They gave me ALL the boxes of their smokeless loads and when I looked at the price I nearly fainted! If I remember they paid $50 a box......so I put them all on Gunbroker at a 20% discount and they were grabbed by a hunter in Colorado in less than 2 hours! Great deal for me and a couple of new black powder shooters that were happy!
John Rogers the oldracer

[wswartzwel]

When I was a teenager dad was buying lots of guns, back in the 1970s. One of his favorites was a 444 Marlin. nice looking lever action, I only shot it once. although I'm sure it would stop a bear, it also mauled the shooter.

[KFC911]

We don't have big game here ... a .30-30 Marlin was my first purchase at 18 ... I don't hunt ... I fish .

I can take deer with a baseball bat now

Black bears are now .... local... ain't 'spozed to be .

A Remington 18" 870 with Fiocchi 00 Defensive Load... Slug .... 3rd one won't matter .…

RIP Slugger...

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by trials935

I have a Marlin 1894 csbl .357 , stainless, grey laminate stock, Ruger made. Would this work?

Nope! I have a .357 Marlin too... everybody needs one tho' !

[id10t]

What I would consider taking with me hunting bear produces a different subset of what I'd want with me for unexpected bear while doing things in bear areas.

For the latter, I find it interesting to note that there have been a few conversions of FN-FALs and builds of AR-10s in 358 Winchester....

[sc_rufctr]

The .338 Federal (center) between the .308 Winchester (left) and the .358 Winchester (right).

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by id10t

What I would consider taking with me hunting bear produces a different subset of what I'd want with me for unexpected bear while doing things in bear areas.

....

Whatever Higgin reloads in his .45s

I'd carry no less than my M29 .44 Mag ... and then do what wild bears do in the woods... as I ran ...

I'll just outrun him .... my slower buddy...

[masraum]

Originally Posted by KFC911

Whatever Higgin reloads in his .45s

I'd carry no less than my M29 .44 Mag ... and then do what wild bears do in the woods... as I ran ...

I'll just outrun him .... my slower buddy...

Good tactic to help mask your scent! Nobody, not even a bear wants to stumble into what made that smell!

No mention of things like 454 Casull or 50 cal desert eagles, LOL!

[vash]

anyone here actually shoot a charging bear? just curious. shoot "at" a charging bear??

I'll be in bear territory this summer...I am buying two cans of bear spray. one to try and practice with. I figured reading the instructions as a bear is " bearing" down on me is the worst time to work out the spray logistics. . I know I am faster on my feet than half my travel group....

[Jeff Higgins]

Nope, I have never had to stop a charging animal of any kind, in spite of hunting some that are notorious for this behavior. I've had the great good fortune of placing the first shot where it belongs on those occasions where I was after these kinds of critters.

So, yes, what I have on hand when just generally farting around in the woods in bear country, like back packing, day hiking, maybe grouse hunting with Ed, chopping firewood, whatever, is far different than when I'm out actively hunting. In these cases I'm carrying a small, short barreled, powerful revolver of some kind, stoked with some pretty heavy loads.

Here is a representative example of revolvers I carry. From top to bottom, an Interarms Virginian Dragoon and Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt, then another (Super) Blackhawk and a Smith and Wesson Model 29 in .44 magnum. My most carried by far has been the Blackhawk in .45 Colt, but I'm really warming up to the little Super Blackhawk because of its Bisley style grip. It really does a good job of handling heavy recoil. I don't carry the Model 29 much, nor the Dragoon, because I kinda like stainless steel in our rainy Pacific Northwest.



My "bear loads" in both calibers utilize 300 grain bullets from LBT molds, cast from wheel weights. My .44 mag load will hit 1,200 fps, and the .45 Colt will just top 1,300 fps. I won't shoot that heavy load in the Model 29, though, it's just not as stout as the Rugers. In that I use the traditional old Keith bullet, cast in an RCBS mold, weighing 250 grains. My load for that does about 1,200 fps from the Model 29. Left to right, the .45 Colt, .44 mag, and .44 mag for the Model 29.



So, yeah, hunting them and just being in their neighborhood are two different things. I'm realistic enough to know that even these revolvers offer scant protection when worse comes to worse, but they are better than nothing. That, and if targets of opportunity present themselves, I'll take a shot at 'em. I've lost track of how many coyotes I've dropped with revolvers when just out and about in the outdoors.