Elderly drivers, unbearable tradgedy - Page 2

DByers · 07-17-2003, 03:50 PM

Denis, That remark about a heart was made by a witness at the scene. It is unfortunate that drivers are not tested more often, through out ones life. In CA testing is not mandatory for people over 70. They are required to go to the DMV to renew, they can not do it through the mail. At that time the DMV person can if they see fit ask the person to take a in-vehicle test. I wonder how often that happens.

Moses · 07-17-2003, 04:46 PM

I live about 3 miles from Rossmoor Leisure World retirement community. It is a drive-through mausoleum. Six thousand old folks just circling the drain. Every one of them has a drivers license. They don't really steer their cars. They aim them. All you see is a little tuft of white hair and a pair of eyes peeking out from underneath the wheel.

There is a two lane curvy back road near my house that leads to Rossmoor. Because the road is narrow, the geriatric roadmasters generally navigate these roads by straddling the white line. If they encounter oncoming traffic, they frequently panic and lock up the brakes or over-correct and pitch their car off the road taking out mailboxes, bicyclists or unlucky pedestrians. There are dozens of accidents on this two mile stretch of roadway every year.

The problem is that the driving "priveledge" is their last connection to an independent life and is rarely surrendered willingly.

WOODPIE · 07-17-2003, 06:00 PM

The death toll is now ten. The small child passed away in hospital today.

This was a terrible accident. I think the sensational nature of this particular accident, with the accompanied sensationalist reporting, has given rise to another knee-jerk call for more laws and regulations, most all of which are redundant at best and impractical to implement and enforce.

As the states find their budgets collapsing around their ears, one of the more likely departments to face cuts will be the DMV, or DPS or whichever one is charged with issueing and testing for operator's licenses in your particular state. Testing the present day elderly and infirm, and adding to those the millions of "Boomers", on an annual basis is simply not going to happen.

We have people on the road who are:

1. Elderly
2. Physically or mentally ill
3. Drunk
4. Talking on the phone
5. Eating and drinking
6. Attending to personal hygene
7. Picking their nose (whoops, see 5 and 6)
8. Sending faxes
9. Watching video screens
10. Smoking pot, snorting cocaine or crank.

But let an old man make a mess of things, and the call goes out "We just have to get these people off the road!" Gimme a break.....

Personally, I suspect the old man in question suffers from some condition that would frequent upon him some kind of dementia. He has probably had bouts of this more and more frequently lately, and has become accustomed to them. Thus, when the screaming started and the bodies went flying, he assumed it was just another of those "funny spells" he had been having.

Again. Terrible accident. One of thousands. Everyday.

Ed

island911 · 07-17-2003, 06:27 PM

Great post Ed.

Though, auto fatalities last year, in the US =42,815. So more like 10 of 117 every day.

. . though, still, i agree that it is over reacting to have "another knee-jerk call for more laws and regulations"

dad911 · 07-17-2003, 07:27 PM

My mother's best friend drove THROUGH my wife's parents house, she still has her license. A very good friend tried to have her father's license revolked, he couldn't see. No doctor or govenment agency would step in. I have also been 'backed into' And my own mother won't drive over 45. At least she stays off of the highways.

Common problem, but unfortunately I don't see a solution. Especially when Friends/family/and docs all see a problem, and can't do anything about it.

CJFusco · CJFusco's Garage

"i agree that it is over reacting to have "another knee-jerk call for more laws and regulations""

Yes, i agree too. If laws were past every time people became afraid of something (i'm glancing in your direction, Patriot Act), we would be living in an Orwell novel.

The law - simple retesting of elderly drivers once a year - should have been in place to begin with.

turbo6bar · 07-17-2003, 07:35 PM

It's hard enough to keep drunks off the road. It will be a cold day when incapacitated old geezers are stripped of their license. Aren't there already enough stupid drivers on the road to overshadow the poor elderly drivers?

Whatever happened to people taking responsibility for themselves and their actions???

pwd72s · 07-17-2003, 07:37 PM

I turn 60 in November...perhaps it's time to send the P-car to the crusher...

dad911 · 07-17-2003, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by turbo6bar

Whatever happened to people taking responsibility for themselves and their actions???

Lawyers

Stanley · 07-17-2003, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Moses
I live about 3 miles from Rossmoor Leisure World retirement community. It is a drive-through mausoleum. Six thousand old folks just circling the drain. Every one of them has a drivers license. They don't really steer their cars. They aim them. All you see is a little tuft of white hair and a pair of eyes peeking out from underneath the wheel.

Doesn't Rossmoor have special licenses for old people that aren't allowed to get a normal drivers license, but can still drive on the Rossmoor property. Now I bet thats scary. Last year I worked on a house that was at a retirement community like Rossmoor and there was some really "interesting" driving going on. There was this one guy that drive about 15 MPH everywhere, even through stop signs.

speeder · speeder's Garage

Just to clarify, I am not into ageism, (or any other ism or than incompetent driver-ism), I do not believe in any automatic age limit for driving. It is just common sense, IMO, to have better testing for ALL drivers, and annual renewals past a certain age. Driving is not an automatic right!! Otherwise let's just lower the age to 12 and get rid of the driving test, too much government interference in our lives anyways.

Oh, and BTW; this is not some new crusade of mine since yesterday. It is actually a sore spot of mine, not because of elderly drivers only, but because of the neighborhood that I live in, which is populated w/ an immigrant population that is as a group the worst drivers on the planet. HTF did they get licences?? And from a darwinian perspective, how do they exist? I mean, if driving is allowed in their homeland?

EDITED for spelling. (My pet peeve).

350HP930 · 07-18-2003, 07:43 AM

I believe the FAA forces commercial pilots to retire at 65, yet the geezer lobby will forever fight just testing those over 75 to see if they can still drive.

Where are the lobbyists claiming age discrimination when the licence laws have changed for 16 year olds?

Living in Florida where many old people go to die, I will take a cranked up, pot smoking, teenager who is talking on the cell phone any day compared to one of our many oblivious senior drivers.

BGCarrera32 · 07-18-2003, 07:57 AM

I agree with Speeder to some extent on this (what?!)

The problem or issue as I see is the age part of the tesing. I've heard people say its just common sense to test at 65, then some say 60, some say 70...so what is it? Gets back to what I've believed all along, it should be done at regular intervals from the day you get your license. If ya take away a 62 year olds license, and they can't get to work because they can't drive, you threaten his/her income and retirement. Now you've got the liberals (hang with me here) crying unfair...we're gonna have to fund his transportation to work, driving is a right, blah blah. On the other side of the camp, the conservative says we need to test yearly, but we don't want to pay for it. So where's the happy or effective ground? IMO, it starts with better education from the get go (getting drivers in this country serious about saftey and driving, and quit blaming the manufactuers while were at it). A bi-annual test and license renewal would probably up the catch rate on both the teenage crack head, and the elderly person loosing their sight/reflexes/whatever.

Maybe not the best answer, but a helpful start. Unfortunately at the end of the day we've got 10 dead, their hopes, dreams, and promise of the future flushed away by an inexcusable accident.

-BG

speeder · speeder's Garage

You want to know who is against stricter testing for driver's licenses? The powerful auto lobby. It would diminish their customer base if everyone w/ a pulse could not get a license.

I am actually not as ideologically driven as some of you may think, (but it's OK to think what you like),

, just common sense and balance between competing interests is the name of the game, IMO. It will always be that balancing act w/ our system of government, let's take some of the power back from special interests.

Adam · Adam's Garage

There's a lot of folks defending the oldies here and I respect and understand the sentiments about mobility, individuality and of course independence. I can imagine how depressing it would be for an elderly person to be stripped of their driver's licence, knowing that it's just another curve on the spiralling road to the end. Suddenly they're totally reliant on family and friends for everyday, mundane tasks, like shopping and day-to-day travel.

But imagine what that old guy in CA feels like right now. If he's never had his suspicions about his limitations, he's probably devastated by what he's done. If he has had doubts, then he's negligent and will regret it until the day he dies. Imagine having to live with even one vehicle fatality - at any age! Either way, it's a lose-lose situation. I personally feel terribly for the driver, but when I think about the families of the dead and injured and the fact that he travelled such a distance, mowing people down without slowing or stopping...

As Denis said, it's an accident that didn't need to happen.

He should never have been on the road in the first place, even though he was once a 25-65 "normal" driver, just like all of us - remember, he was our age once... But, just think, for a minute, if it was your wife and three-year-old child who were slaughtered by this man. I think everyone here would be screaming for reform. It's very, very sad.

turbo6bar · 07-18-2003, 04:58 PM

I agree that this incident should not be cause to focus on the elderly. American drivers, on the whole, aren't too great. We should have a better system in place, but damn if the DMV isn't already a royal cluster****. I don't see how the DMV can ascertain driver competence when half the employees at the DMV are incompetent, lazy, and/or indifferent themselves.

Again, it is about taking personal responsibility. If you are unable or incapable of driving, you need to get your arse off the road. If that means you can't drive to the Quickie Mart for a slurpie, well too bad. Maybe you need to buy an in-town home that's more suitable. Life's a beach, kid.

The old guy in CA is facing Catch-22. If he's insane, then he's already lost, and if he's sane, he'll live with his F-Up for the rest of his life.

I guess it's easy to call for action by others when it does not require an action or reaction on one's own part. That means if you have grandparents, you need to check up on them. That means you should treat your own driving more seriously. No, I'm not preaching to you guys. I just think personal action is more influential and beneficial than expecting action by others.

Jurgen

350HP930 · 07-18-2003, 05:26 PM

Modern simulator technology could safely and efficiently weed out the bad from the good drivers, but the changes and expenses involved will make such a reasonable solution a non-starter for the thousands of cash strapped DMVs that would need to invest in such advanced technology.

With the ideal solution of testing everyone out of reach it only makes sense to go after the demographics that are known to be a problem.

speeder · speeder's Garage

I agree, simulators are THE logical solution, plus it is the only safe way to really test someone's reflexes and/or responses to crazy stuff popping up in front of them. They could make it moderately easy to pass, and still eliminate an ass-load of horrible drivers. Too logical of a solution, though, I'm sure.

BGCarrera32 · 07-18-2003, 10:03 PM

Hmmm...simulator...

Simulator with a 915...anyone that grinds gears gets their license revoked. Ought to eliminate 95% of the drivers on the road, speeding up my commute...

Quote:

Too logical of a solution, though, I'm sure.

Being its the government, it would probably end up being like the whole voting machine fiasco in FL. Replace all the crap a year later, and the new stuff doesn't work and gets all screwed up again...

Langers · 07-20-2003, 01:20 AM

In Australia, or NSW at least, elderly drivers have to take an annual driving test, and many of them are restricted to driving within a small radius of their home.