Electrical questions for an out building

[rfuerst911sc]

As some of you followed along on the enclosure of my out building I now am thinking about getting electrical power to it . Here's what I am thinking of doing .

1.Install 30 amp double pole breaker in our parking garage . That will feed 220 to the out building .
2.Use # 8 THWN wire to run the 105 ' from parking garage to out building in 1 " plastic conduit .
3.Install small circuit breaker box in out building , maybe 8-10 circuit capacity .
4.Install two 20 amp single pole breakers in out building box . One will feed 5-6 outlets inside the building . The other will feed two UFO high bay LED lights . Wire used will be # 12 for all .

Does this sound about right ? This is not a work shop . Outlets will be used for a battery charger for tractor or anything with minimal draw . I was thinking I might be able to get away with # 10 wire ? And maybe use a 20 or 25 amp double pole breaker ? Fire away gentleman

[wdfifteen]

I would calculate the maximum draw someone else might put on the circuit and size the wire accordingly. Also, if you Hail Mary it and go with 10 gauge wire, put the circuit on a 20 amp breaker inside the parking garage.

[3rd_gear_Ted]

60 amp sub panels are the standard size.
60 Amp C/B with #6 wire in 1" plastic conduit.

[Por_sha911]

Dumb questions:
What is code there?
Will you legally need a licensed electrician to approve the final work?

God forbid there is ever a fire, your insurance company will have an excuse to walk away from covering it.

If you're going to spend the money to install all this stuff, why not spend a little more and be over protected rather than under? Also, you may later to decide to use something that demands more power.

[Scott Douglas]

Funny, when I saw how nicely the end product of the door install went I thought to myself, I wonder how long it'll be before he wants power out there.

[rfuerst911sc]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

Dumb questions:
What is code there?
Will you legally need a licensed electrician to approve the final work?

God forbid there is ever a fire, your insurance company will have an excuse to walk away from covering it.

If you're going to spend the money to install all this stuff, why not spend a little more and be over protected rather than under? Also, you may later to decide to use something that demands more power.

The 30 amp scenario I listed above meets code . If I want 40/50/60 amp it can be done just need to bump up wire and conduit size . I am rural so an electrical inspection is not required . The parking garage sub panel is fed from the house panel via a 60 amp breaker . I feel comfortable running a 30amp double breaker from parking garage to shed .

[rfuerst911sc]

Originally Posted by Scott Douglas

Funny, when I saw how nicely the end product of the door install went I thought to myself, I wonder how long it'll be before he wants power out there.

I was already thinking electrical while they were framing

[Zeke]

Wire size is determined by the length of run and the breaker feeding it. You might be just fine with #8 on a 30 amp circuit. You don't need a disconnect in the new garage if you keep the breaker count at 6 or less, double pull tied breakers count as 2.

At the garage end, the load determines how many breakers. You do have to anticipate a little more than minimum. One thing for sure, you aren't putting a charging station out there on a 30 amp circuit. There is a mis conception that all the breakers need to be smaller than the feed. Not so, you can have a 30 amp breaker in your new panel. 3-4 20's would be better. 25A really isn't used because 30A will handle a #10. You could ostensibly weld out there on a 30A with the panel being fed by #8 (given the voltage drop at 100', about 6+ volts @240 plus whatever wires, cords are used in the building).

You might consider 15A for the lights. High bay LED's don't draw much current. If all the lights are on a dedicated circuit, 15A will handle a bunch, including exterior lighting. 14 ga is so much easier to work with, not to mention the cost. But if that is going to result in a lot of waste, stay with the 12. You can under protect it, just not over protect it (see the comment about a 25A breaker above).

A 12 space panel is as cheap as they come. Rather than buy a 30A GFCI to feed all this, you could put a GFCI at the head of each proposed circuit with a dead front for the lighting. That way your GFCI's will be right there in the same building. No AFCI needed.

[id10t]

consider running a second trench for ethernet and/or phone line

[Zeke]

Phone line? What kind of phone line? I've seen prices for legacy POTS copper lines and they are outrages. CAT6 I can see, maybe. Depends on coverage at Richard's property.

[id10t]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Phone line? What kind of phone line? I've seen prices for legacy POTS copper lines and they are outrages. CAT6 I can see, maybe. Depends on coverage at Richard's property.

Two cat 5/6 lines next to eachother, one for POTS style phone the other for ethernet (which would either hit a small switch or a wireless ap in the outbuilding)

[rfuerst911sc]

Originally Posted by id10t

consider running a second trench for ethernet and/or phone line

It's a shed . I don't have phone in my house ( use cellphone ) so don't need in a shed . Appreciate the advice . Thanks

[Cajundaddy]

Your plan sounds doable. As Milt said a 15A with #14 for the light string makes sense. Maybe a 30A RV shore power outlet just in case and 1x20A circuit for a few outlets.

[rfuerst911sc]

Originally Posted by Cajundaddy

Your plan sounds doable. As Milt said a 15A with #14 for the light string makes sense. Maybe a 30A RV shore power outlet just in case and 1x20A circuit for a few outlets.

We have a separate RV carport where our 5th wheel camper resides . It has a 30 amp RV outlet so we can power the camper . So no need for that for the shed . I may rethink 14 gauge wire for the lights . Thanks

[E Sully]

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

As some of you followed along on the enclosure of my out building I now am thinking about getting electrical power to it . Here's what I am thinking of doing .

1.Install 30 amp double pole breaker in our parking garage . That will feed 220 to the out building .
2.Use # 8 THWN wire to run the 105 ' from parking garage to out building in 1 " plastic conduit .
3.Install small circuit breaker box in out building , maybe 8-10 circuit capacity .
4.Install two 20 amp single pole breakers in out building box . One will feed 5-6 outlets inside the building . The other will feed two UFO high bay LED lights . Wire used will be # 12 for all .

Does this sound about right ? This is not a work shop . Outlets will be used for a battery charger for tractor or anything with minimal draw . I was thinking I might be able to get away with # 10 wire ? And maybe use a 20 or 25 amp double pole breaker ? Fire away gentleman

Install a means of disconnect for 8-10 circuit panel, main breaker panel or disconnect switch. Ground rods according to local code with no bonding screw installed in sub panel.

[Gogar]

I suggest you oversize the conduit in case you change your mind about wire size. No one ever looked back and wanted the conduit smaller.

except 105' is a long pull so you will most likely want to pull the wire as you assemble the conduit, and then bury the whole thing. actually pulling 100 feet would suck.

Remember you need to pull a green ground also to the main panel and you still need to physically ground the sub panel at the outbuilding.

Absolutely run a conduit with 2 cat6 unless you don't wanna buy that extra conduit you can get direct-bury cat6.

[E Sully]

I would not run less than a 1". When I ran a new 1" feeder for my well house I also added a 3/4" and pulled in cat 6. I have never used it, but the PVC conduit was cheap at the time and I already had a trench. I can always use it for something else.
Gogar's suggestion to install wire as you go could be a pain. I have only pulled after installing. While my usual method is to just run a snake, but they do make sponges that connect tie onto drag line and blow or suck it through with a vacuum. Using a wet dry vacuum with a plastic bag tied to drag line has worked when the Greenlee was not on the job. Wire Ease Lube is highly recommended in PVC.
In NYC we always pulled in a drag line with the wires. It comes in handy if any additional wires needed to be pulled in later.
I'm not a fan of direct burial cable.

[Zeke]

I agree that going to 1-1/4 might not hurt with that run.

[dad911]

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

.......This is not a work shop . Outlets will be used for a battery charger for tractor or anything with minimal draw . I was thinking I might be able to get away with # 10 wire ? And maybe use a 20 or 25 amp double pole breaker ? Fire away gentleman

Only 2 circuits, outlets and lights? Chargers and lights(LED) are very low current.

I'd skip the subpanel and pull 2 blacks, 2 whites, 2 grounds, all #12, and split the lights and outlets between these 2 circuits..... and I'd probably pull 3 of each so there is a spare.

1" sched80 pvc capacity is 20 wires, so you are not even close.

I usually lay out the wire next to the trench, slide pipe over it and glue as you go. Much easier than pulling, imho. Add a pull string for the future, if you need to pull more conductors later.

[Zeke]

@dad911, I think you are in building, no? Anyway, there is a provision in the code (I know Richard said it wouldn't need inspection) for multiple circuits from building to building now, but in general that is not how it's done. However, it is definitely allowed (and necessary) if one wishes to switch a light on the outbuilding from another building.

For some reason section 225.30 allows for multiple circuits to be terminated in the same location and labeled. Why not just put a panel there?

But I'd cost out things before proceeding.