Last of a dying breed

[turbo6bar]

I graduated from Georgia Tech in 1999 with a BS in Civil Engineering. I actually like engineering, but I hate working in an office, hence my self-employment. For most, it seems, engineering and science seems lame. Oh, well.

Demand for engineers and scientists

I don't feel engineers will be in high demand as the article states, but I do feel the falling numbers of US grads in science and engineering is not a good sign. Do all students really think a major in management is a good road to success? It might be a false perception, but it seems like every youngster today wants to slide through college and get a cushy office job managing others. Too many chiefs and not enough indians = trouble.

The US needs to rethink competition in the global marketplace. It shall be done eventually, I hope.

Just my opinion. No hard feelings. My plate has been full for quite some time, and I have no lack of work.

Jürgen

[Aurel]

I fully agree with you turbo6bar. Less lawyers and more engineers would make the US a more productive place. In France where I come from, the elite comes out of enginnering schools, not lawschools.
This is the way it should be. Learning law does not require a huge amount of brain, and neither does managing people (I am sure I am making lots of new friends here )

Aurel

[Icemaster]

Originally posted by turbo6bar
I Do all students really think a major in management is a good road to success?

No, it's just easier that way.

I'll never forget the many times however that I got aced out of programming classes (typically ones that rolled around 1 quarter every other year, and were required for a degree....) because the slots went first to exchange students (!!!!!!). Worst part was, they typically weren't even in the IT programs - most were engineering students over here on scholaship who took the class as an elective.

I, on the other hand, couldn't graduate without it.

Oh yeah, now I remember why I never did get my bachelors.

[Shuie]

I majored in Engineering becuase it required the fewest number of English and Public Speaking classes. Most of the people in my curriculum (EE/EEC) were foreign students who were planning to return home after their graduation.

[Aurel]

Lately, we had a very well paid post-doc position at the Unisversity. This was for a project with DOD. Only condition was that the candidate had to be a US citizen. Never could find one. The campus is filled with chinese and indians though...

Aurel

[dd74]

Don't you guys think Bush's proposal to put men on Mars by 2025 should hire some current-day engineering students? I hear Boeing is already ramping up.

IBM is hiring too (for those in the computer science departments - though the lion's share is going overseas). But still, they are hiring...

I was a Literature major. I can barely understand how a can opener works, but I can certainly wax poetic about it.

I think the majors to be in now are medicine (veterinarian medicine) and politics.

After all, we need people to know if cows are "mad," and understand why we need to blow up other countries...

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Aurel, we have the same problem at my company--finding highly skilled engineers willing to actually work (instead of going on for an MBA/lobotomy and a management position). Especially since H1Bs are getting tougher to get. Now we just hire people who work out of Bangalore.

[vash]

Originally posted by Aurel
Lately, we had a very well paid post-doc position at the Unisversity. This was for a project with DOD. Only condition was that the candidate had to be a US citizen. Never could find one. The campus is filled with chinese and indians though...

Aurel

hey, i am an american born chinese kid. granted as a civ eng, i am not alone in my field as far as my race is concerned, but i seriously doubt anyone can tell my citizenship from my physical characteristics and my choice of major.

but back to the topic, let everyone else become computer folks and lawyers. i am waiting for the law of supply and demand to kick in, and hopefully jack my salary to the sky! probably a foolish pipedream.

but all you CE's, out there, did you feel any smarter when you passed your PE? i didnt.

[Moneyguy1]

DD74:

Your background, with a few basic courses, is perfect for technical writing!! Someone has to be able to translete the engineer's dreams into readable prose!!

[Zeke]

This topic has much wider implications. It's not just in the engineering field that there are too many chiefs. I think the US is top heavy right now with financial people. From insurance to medical to investment to just plain loans, how many people can just/only handle money? Somebody has to pick up a hammer or farm or push buttons. We're losing those jobs to another society living amoungst us. And worse, we've lost anything that is portable such as manufacturing to foreign countries. Pretty soon there will be no one to manage with that managers' degree.

And I already hear of mangers having to go to foreign countrise to work as a liason between the foreign work forces and the bean counters back home.

The worst part is that it doesn't seem to want to get better.

[Aurel]

I think the majors to be in now are medicine (veterinarian medicine) and politics

Yeah, dogs don`t sue ! (but for how long ? )
Man, here is the job of the future: Pet attorney...Huge market

I agree with politics too. I`d love somebody to kick Bush out of office, but the dems are so lame, I wonder who I would vote for If I had the right to vote.

Aurel

[dd74]

Milt nailed it. I believe we've been hypnotized with either becoming money managers and/or greedy lawyers. And some of those self-serving individuals have gone onto CEO-like status with their attitudes and figured out the farming of jobs overseas for cheaper wages ensures them their same or more share of the pie.

I see it from the animation perspective where nearly every current cartoon you see today is done by animation houses in Taiwan or Japan (though Taiwan is cheaper). Warner Bros. utilizes laisons who speak both English and the language used in the foreign country to translate script to action - which nonetheless never comes out correctly. You should see what happens to a Batman script in conjunction with an animation house in a foreign country (accept Australia or Canada). The film comes back and instantly the director has a fit!

Meanwhile, the higher-ups in a studio are raking in bucks because the animation is done on the cheap and looks generally lousy anyway as they use computers for it...

[nostatic]

vet school is harder to get into than med school (not sure of the message there...).

The science/eng shortage has been talked about for years, but it never seems to come to fruition. Instead, companies just outsource and hire people on J1 visas to do the work.

It comes down to money, lousy edu system, and laziness. It is a lot easier (well, *was*) to make a ton of money if you get a JD or an MBA. When I finished my Ph.D. in chemistry I got a "good paying" postdoc...$23K/yr ('94). My faculty position was $37K/yr. When I moved to an administrative position I bumped my salary big time. But I'm not doing science any more...at least not in the field I was trained. I suppose that argues that I was well trained and that critical thought crosses disciplines well.

It's OK though...we dont' need to pay the scientists, engineers or educators well. We'll advance society through pro athletes...they are much more important.

[dd74]

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
DD74:

Your background, with a few basic courses, is perfect for technical writing!! Someone has to be able to translete the engineer's dreams into readable prose!!

I've done technical writing before. For a time, during the dot.com fiasco, I wrote QA scripts for software and websites.

It showed the pen is mightier than the user as I wrote scripts that guaranteed a melt down of almost any software; implemented or web-based. Programmers and web designers absolutely abhorred me!

It was great fun while any job lasted over 3 months.

I'd gladly do it again...but on a freelance basis.

[turbo6bar]

I'm not so disappointed at seeing jobs go to foreigners or even jobs being shipped overseas, but rather the lack of care among the general populace. As long as one make suckle the tit of mama pig, the future warrant little concern. I don't think there will be mass alarm until the American way of life is threatened.

Lack of education?
Lack of desire?
Lack of competitive spirit?
Lack of concern?
Beats me.

I believe some are deluded into thinking one can make a ton of money without being competitive. As the marketplace becomes further integrated globally, we will no longer be able to 'rest on laurels.' Somebody, somewhere will be willing to do it cheaper, better, faster, etc. Of course there will always be those willing to sell their soul and their company to make a buck. That has always been the case, except now the little companies are big companies, and making a buck then has morphed into billions of dollars.

I do see a chance for change, as the American auto industry has already risen from the graveyard. However, with the new global economy, things will never be easy.

No worries, we have Kobe, err, I mean Rae Carruth, err, I mean Pete Rose to ween the masses. Ah, fogettaboutit.

unfixed, I never went into engineering full-time, so no PE for me. Like I said, pushing paper just rubbed me wrong, and those d@mn pocket protectors chafe the nipples.

[tabs]

Originally posted by nostatic
It's OK though...we dont' need to pay the scientists, engineers or educators well. We'll advance society through pro athletes...they are much more important.

You cynicism is showing again Nostatus....

Who needs a job, just own 5000 shares of Motorola and have it go up $.25 a share a day!

Oh yeah I bin looking through a box of my stuff, looking for my degree...I found my HS diploma...yeah GO GLENDORA HIGH class of 1971.....yep there is my AA degree from Citrus JC....and where is that BA thingy....Oh here it is...Yeah I did graduate from UCSB in 1975 with a degree in.....theres a smug there, let me wipe it offf...yeah Political Science that it....I got a degree in Political Science from UCSB.....go Gauchos...

[Purrybonker]

I read somewhere that for the first time ever - there are more females than males entering the engineering faculty of our local university.

...screw law. Let's see converting 69 to metric on my slide rule - that would be 282, right?

[911/914gary]

It's probably too late to save engineering in this country. As an aerospace engineer I have seen engineering work dwindling down for more than a decade. Due to limited military programs, engineering failures (rocket booster, NASA), company down sizing & buyouts, lack of new commercial programs,….. The list is long. But primarily the one thing that is killing engineering in the USA is outsourcing. In aerospace engineering has a high overhead cost. The "MBA" solution to reduce company overhead is to hire temp engineers or send the engineering outside the country. Engineers are now like furniture in the eyes of corporate offices that can be bought and disposed of as needed.

As an engineer (with Boeing) I will never be intimately involved with design and manufacturing of a new aircraft again. Instead I will "system integrate" the aircraft. That means I write specifications so that someone else can design and manufacture the end item for Boeing.

Already all the technical writers have been let go and a company Chile now does this function! There is a think tank in Russia that is working on a small passenger aircraft. The same thing is happening in every high tech industry.

There is no future in engineering in this country unless management sees beyond the today's bottom line. But if you are going to succeed in engineering you need to get into management. You need at least an MBA to be competitive. The MBAs have won.

[tabs]

My Daddy was an aero space engineer before he retired. Problem was back in the day, that when an aero space engineer hit 50 he was over the hill...a fresh new college grad worked cheaper and had new technology...so the only way a engineer could make it was by having management skills as well... So what is really new, quit yer whining and go out and get a job at Mickey D's...just press the button that looks like a Big Mac..how tough can that be? Don't need no PhD for that. Or maybe a nice cushy job at Wally World sayin HI to everybody who walks through the door.

[911/914gary]

The issue is not in the age of an engineer. There are plenty of old engineers in my group that are in thier late 60's. The problem is that a career in engineering is limited. Companys now hire temp or out of the country for engineering. So inside of a decade I'll be competing with PHD's for a job at Wallmart as a door greater.