Peace protesters (venting)

[djmcmath]

I'm impressed. Didn't intend to start so much controversy about a simple vent. Yes, peace protesters have every right to stand on a street corner and speak the hatred that's on their minds. As I said in my second post, "I don't honestly hate anyone," I was just venting.

I do support people's mothers getting out and saying whatever they want, btw. It should be noted that this particular batch of people wasn't somebodies mothers, just a collection of peace protesters who do this thing every mother's day. Why do they pick mom's totally american holiday to restrict access to my place of work? Beats me.

350 -- thanks for your massive quote. As soon as I have 5 free minutes to read the thing, I honestly intend to. If anybody else has good insight on the recent broken-ness of the military, or more specifically the submarine navy, I'd be wide open to any responses.

FWIW, I'm about to start another "vent" thread on the police state, traffic regulation, and so-called "court" systems that are so biased it's difficult to see justice from where we are.

Cheers, and thanks for the comments.. I love to incite people to think -- educated discussion between intelligent people sharpens your mind "as steel sharpens steel."


Dan

[rcecale]

Originally posted by speeder
I know for a fact that there are soldiers and politicians who are not threatened or even bothered in the least by people waving signs, especially a bunch of middle-aged mothers, whether they are protesting abortion or a war. It's part of the deal here, and it's a damn good deal.

Count me in as a part of that crowd!

I have no argument against anyone protesting. I may not like that they do, but that is thier right. That's what this country is all about. I accept that....in fact, I encourage that.
The thing that anybody who protests must understand though, (no matter what they're protesting) is that there are, and always will be, those who oppose their point of view. Protest whatever you want, all you want, but people just need to understand and accept that as much as they have the right to protest, other's have the right to protest them.

Randy

[speeder]

Dan, I am a bit cooled down now and I am sorry if I was disrespectful to you on this thread. (Or anyone else). I do appreciate your service, as do most Americans I'm sure.

Why do you think that the anti-war protesters are filled w/ hatred? I went to one of the huge rallies here in L.A. before the Iraqi invasion and I didn't feel that vibe at all. Maybe a little towards Bush and company, but certainly not towards members of the military, many of whom we suspected were soon to be dead.

There are definitely some nut-jobs on the left that may be present at marches, but the great majority are just good Americans who just didn't agree that invading Iraq at this time was the right thing, (or neccesary thing), to do. I have stood up for members of the Armed Services in discussions w/ other lefties since Viet Nam, when I was 13 years old. That is why I feel justified arguing the other side as well, when I felt that protesters were being mis-characterised by you. But none the less, Thanks for your service and keep your head up. I want you home, alive, banging your girlfriend or wife. Or both.

[djmcmath]

Speeder, I'm exhausted, and apologize in advance if I'm a bit incoherent -- I hold no grudges, bear no ill will, or otherwise am upset with anyone here. I'd be more than happy to buy you a beer next time I'm travelling through your part of the world. Thank you for your apology, though I certainly don't believe that I in any way needed it.

FWIW -- your relatives who served -- I owe a deep debt to men like that. I usually feel like my job is easy, in comparison to guys who served in "real wars." I mean, I know this is a "real war," but submarines don't really do the same things that normal people do. Or rather than normal soldiers do. I'm totally incoherent -- 8 shots of espresso in the last 2 hours, and I'm still ready to pass out -- just disregard me. I'm just trying to say thanks to all the people that owe my current freedom to, such that I have a military in which to serve, I guess.

I guess the "hatred" vibe I get from the protesters is when they throw stuff at cars bearing the DOD stickers, and maybe the signs that say things like "We hate the military." Maybe I'm reading too much into all that, and maybe you've got a different batch of protesters. (sigh)

As to left-wing nut-jobs -- recall there are right-wing nut-jobs too. Heck, I'm one of them.

Hey, what about starting a "Can we agree on anything?" thread? I wonder if we could find any single item that this crowd can universally accept as true?

I have to go to bed. Really, honest this time. Cheers,


Dan

[350HP930]

Hey Dan, my dad served as a tech on the USS Vallejo back in the 60.

How long have you been doing submarine duty?

[djmcmath]

350 -- finally had a chance to read your speech. Like most senior government types, it read like a lot of buzzwords with some deeper meaning. For the stupid people (like me), I'll try to summarize -- please correct me if I'm wrong. You're suggesting, with this posting, that the problem with the military is that the military-industrial complex has too much power over the rest of the country? That 3.5M people (what is that, a little more than half of our current population) is too much, and that if we continue down this path, we'l find ourselves in an interminable death spiral of building military simply for the sake of building military, and our civilization will fall to it's knees like so many before it because of some sick desire to build military beyond reason? Not that I'm disagreeing with you, or with your post, but I'm trying to clarify.

I've been doing submarines only briefly, in the grand scheme of things. I've run into a couple of people who served on the old boats, but can't think of anyone specifically from the "Valley Joe", sorry. The old boats were a totally different breed than today, of course. Franklin class boats, like your dad served on -- holy cow, that would have been crazy. The height of the cold war, the painfully recent lessons of submarine losses in the 50's, and you're on the front lines in a nuclear ballistic missile sub? I'm thankful to your father -- men like that paved the way for all of us.


Dan

[350HP930]

Yeah, dad did have a lot a crazy stories about what was involved in working the virgin runs of a new class of nuke sub. He ended up leaving the service when me and my brother were born though since sub service doesn't give you a lot of time to spend at home with the family.

You are correct in your interpretation of the speech I posted. Just in case you are not familiar with that text, its Presiden't Eisenhower's farewell speech he made in 61.

Wiser words from a more accomplished US leader have never been spoken.

[speeder]

Thought that was who it was. My kind of Republican politician. Wise, forward/backwards-thinking, integrity up the wazoo. A giant of a man. Today's creeps couldn't carry his jock strap.

[djmcmath]

I gotta wonder -- were people like Ike really that spectacular, or were we just more respectful? Did we overlook their weaknesses in light of their great accomplishments, such that their bad points don't show up so much in the history books? Will history remember only the good things that today's presidents did, and quietly forget about the stupid mistakes, or will history tell a tale of the decline of American civilization through the declining respectability of our leadership?

Just wonderin'...


Dan

[350HP930]

I choose the decline option. All presidents including ike made mistakes, but any mans acomplishments have to be judged in combination with his failures.

[speeder]

That's a fair question, Dan. I think that in Ike's case he really was a man of integrity, and he was the Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces in WW2, a war that pretty much everyone in the country was behind once we got in it. He did a masterful job of prosecuting the war, we saved the world from Hitler and he was rewarded w/ great affection from the American people and all of our allies. And rightly so, IMO.

He was a great Father figure for our country and very popular around the world, winning a world war is no small deal. He was an effective president in a time of (mostly) peace and prosperity, (1952-60), but also a reasuring character during the height of the Cold War when many Americans were frightened.

(I was not alive then and I'm no great scholar, so hopefully I got this essentially correct).