US Army doles out 10m bonus to Halliburton - Page 3

Mark Howard · 03-01-2005, 08:50 PM

See the link below. This is an example of the job advertisements for KBR. Notice there are no skills required, no education, no liscenses, no certifications, no nothing. Think you could get a job in the states for 6 figures with these qualifications? I think not.

http://kbrcareers.webrecruiter.com/pls/kbr/maine.d?s=F14D7CA916866B45E0340800209B083C

fintstone · fintstone's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by 911pcars
"As someone who works next to, is fed by and is required to coordinate with KBR on a daily basis here in Afghanistan, I can tell you, we're getting ripped off."

Mark,
Maybe Flintstone, who claims he works for the govt., can do something about this or explain why this is happening.

I (we) hope things will be looking up for you and your troops.

Take care,
Sherwood

Easy to explain Sherwood. You don't even need to work for the government to figure it out. Just explain why you...and probably none of you friends have hired on to flip burgers for big bucks in Iraq...of course you would have to be healthy, pass the background check, be drugfree and be willing to be shot full of various vaccines that have not been thoroughly tested....not to mention leaving your family and friends behind.

(edit) Oh, and Sherwood...only an ass would start a statement with: "Maybe Flintstone, who claims "......

Mark Howard · 03-01-2005, 09:32 PM

So, you mean KBR workers must go through all the same things that those wearing the brown suit must go through, and get paid twice as much and get twice the amount of paid leave to go home and visit family and friends that you left voluntarily? Drug free? My A$$! They are one of the biggest suppliers of controlled substances.

You ain't here, don't talk about things you don't witness day to day.

KBR: Karnies, Brothers and Relatives"

KBR: " Kick Back and Relax"

fintstone · fintstone's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Howard
See the link below. This is an example of the job advertisements for KBR. Notice there are no skills required, no education, no liscenses, no certifications, no nothing. Think you could get a job in the states for 6 figures with these qualifications? I think not.

http://kbrcareers.webrecruiter.com/pls/kbr/maine.d?s=F14D7CA916866B45E0340800209B083C

Since there are only a limited number of military slots, I guess that when you are willing to give up enough troops from your unit to do your cooking...or the size of the military is increased...you will do better for chow.

I cannot imagine why you would expect folks to work in Iraq for the same as they would be paid in the US. Even GIs who cannot refuse are paid more to serve there. Clearly, complaining about their cost is not helping. As typical,in the free market, the only way to improve the quality of employee is to actually pay more and increase competition for the positions. The worse the conditions are, the more they must be compensated.

fintstone · fintstone's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Howard
So, you mean KBR workers must go through all the same things that those wearing the brown suit must go through, and get paid twice as much and get twice the amount of paid leave to go home and visit family and friends that you left voluntarily? Drug free? My A$$! They are one of the biggest suppliers of controlled substances.

You ain't here, don't talk about things you don't witness day to day.

KBR: Karnies, Brothers and Relatives"

KBR: " Kick Back and Relax"

That is exactly what I mean. You signed up to serve in the military...they signed up to serve food. Do you expect them to work for less than the maximum they can negotiate?

When the war is over and you come home with your officer's pay and nice retirement...they will be unemployed.

If you are aware of KBR drug dealers....surely you can turn them in to the authorities.

I know that things are tough in theater...but surely you are not jealous of your food service workers.

Mark Howard · 03-01-2005, 09:59 PM

Being from South Louisiana, I have cooks that are very willing to provide that service, however, they are only allowed to cook at forward operating bases because KBR has the contract at major operations bases and foward bases are "too dangerous" for KBR. Most of the time cooks are manning gun trucks and escorting convoys on combat missions instead of cooking, again because KBR has the contract.

I expect a fair days work for fair pay, nothing more. I just have a hard time explaining to my soldiers (and since we are National Guard, many have college degrees) how contractors here can make 3 or 4 times what they currently make with no education or skills. Believe me, KBR likes to brag to my soldiers about how they are making all this $$ and don't even have to leave the wire.

And yes, we do get Combat Pay here. A whopping $250 a month. Sure makes a big difference.

fintstone · fintstone's Garage

I understand why you would be annoyed and need to blow off steam, but as you know, it is not some big political plot to pay off contractors as some that post here would have you believe. It is all supply and demand. Just as anyone who could spell computer in the 90's could demand six figures in SoCal....many are now working for a fraction of that....many have even left the industry. Currently folks willing to volunteer for SW Asia are also few and in demand...It will not last long.

The guys from KBR are there for the money...Clearly that is not why you are there.

While $250 additional taxfree per month is not huge, I imagine it makes a significant difference...it would for me.

Assuming I am not deployed there myself when you come back, look me up in Vegas and I will treat you a great meal downtown...or the O'club at Nellis...your choice.

911pcars · 03-02-2005, 12:15 AM

"(edit) Oh, and Sherwood...only an ass would start a statement with: "Maybe Flintstone, who claims "......"

If Zman is on the prowl, let's see what his reaction is to my ass-talking.

Flint,
You can only obfuscate, not clarify, and when asked to explain, can only resort to name calling. Please attempt to explain why Halliburton/KBR are the only companies that can subcontract work to the unqualified (as verified by Mark, whom I assume is a qualified on-the-scene witness). According to our leaders, H&KBR are the only companies qualified to perform this function. According to reports, there were dozens and dozens of Iraqi and American companies who were qualified yet shut out of the bid process.

Why are these jobs being held by highly paid unqualified Americans instead of qualified "free" Iraqis? This, despite a "slight" unemployment situation in Iraq. Not that I have anything against working Americans, but if they can't cook and are thieves on top of that, then I have a problem with them cooking for me and our troops. And if they're cooking hot dogs and shredded, creamed beef for an inordinate amount of big bucks, that shows me this employer (KBR) doesn't really care about the cost to the American public other than cost + . Is it any wonder that underemployed cost + Iraqi drivers, cooks and ditch diggers don't seem to generate as much cost + toward KBR's bottom line? This bottomless pit of a war contract, exacerbated by companies such as is this is a classic example of corporate opportunism. I wonder if Al Quaida knew we'd also be ambushed by companies such as this. If KBR is being paid to help us, I decline the type of help they're providing.

But then again, as long as Flint, our govt. lacky, has his protected job here in the states, probably due in part to shuffling KBR or equivalent paperwork, he's good as gold; set up for his easy-life-in-his-digs retirement. Sorry ass-clown, your consistently close-minded forum decorum doesn't make for objective discourse .... again.

I usually end up deleting my responses to your narrow-minded, war-mongering viewpoints and rationalizations, but in this case, I'll let it ride.

Sherwood

fintstone · fintstone's Garage

Sherwood

I am sure Maj Howard (another war-monger per your definition) never intended for you to use his remarks in your typical anti-war/anti-american way. Congrats on delivering yet another low blow to our deployed troops. As far as your "flintstone, who claims..." remark....If you had any argument at all regarding the actual content of a person's post, you would not have to begin by implying a person is lying about who their employer is. What an obvious "red herring!" What possible motive could there be for me to do so...or for you to question it? I did not see you refer to Maj Howard as someone who "claims" to in in the National Guard...and I certainly have not questioned your employer...whomever it may be.
Then after questioning the identity of my employer...you create fictional duties for me. How flaccid. Especially since you seem to have no idea how contracting actually works.
Also, you have attributed others remarks to me once again. Do yourself a favor and when addressing a response to me...try responding to something I posted and not your imagination.
Obviously hiring "free Iraqis" represents a security risk we are not prepared to accept yet. Duh. Maybe you should hire acouple to cook for you too.
Unlike you, I could also be deployed just like Mark either in my DoD job or in my reserve position..and as a volunteer (and it certainly would not be the first time)...so quit whining about my "protected job" and sign your whiney self up for a hitch in the service...or if you think the KBR folks are overpaid for their work...why not apply yourself?
Objective discourse? You are clearly not ready for "objective discourse" when you begin your posts with personal insults and end with obfuscation.

911pcars · 03-02-2005, 02:58 AM

Can't trust any of them Iraqis can we, Flint? Obviously, folks with your POV shouldn't have a role in nation building over there. I guess we couldn't trust those 100 Iraqi army applicants either who were blown up by other like Iraqis, or the damage inflicted on more than 10,000 untrustworthy Iraqi persons thus far. Does that description make it easier to swallow?

Your ethnocentrism is showing through.

I only criticize the opportunistic business "people" whose main objective seems to be to milk this war for everything they can get their hands on while supplying contract services benefited by a lucrative agreement w/the govt. You can defend KBR if you like, and apparently ... you like. Did you actually read what Mark Howard wrote through your rose-filtered glasses? You can cite previous history where this was done before. Just because it's in our history doesn't justify it.

Hey, I don't doubt you work for some govt. entity. The word "claim" was not to infer you were lying about your employer. You should travel more.

Sherwood

350HP930 · 03-02-2005, 04:07 AM

It certainly is informative to see fint's armchair warrior attidude and opinions, formed by years of pushing paper in non combat operations, contrasted by the opinions of someone who has seen the reality of this war.

lendaddy · 03-02-2005, 06:20 AM

Mark wasn't discussing war, rather KBR. You didn't catch that?

Superman · 03-02-2005, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fintstone
.....it is not some big political plot to pay off contractors as some that post here would have you believe. It is all supply and demand.

This discussion is hilarious. None of you conservative guys would enjoy reading the new authorized biogrphy of John Kenneth Galbraith, nor would you enjoy the writings of Keynes, the two heavyweight champions of economics in the past century. Fact is, notwithstanding your apparent opinion that capitalism does not have some troubling systemic problems for which regulation is necessary, the rest of the world disagrees with you. From your perspective, I guess, you are smarter than 90% of the world's polulation. Tell me again about liberal elitism.

I'm not going to poke fun at the details of what I see as a pathetic defense of the current system that has appeared in this thread, but I quoted Fint above because this is the heart of the the Halliburton problem and you conservative guys have to argue against your own beloved in order to defend. Supply and demand are not in play for large corporations in general. Market forces essentially only apply to small and medium sized companies since large corporations essentially run our nation. I know you're okay with that and your defenses are, again, pathetic.

If you favor supply and demand, then how can you support no-bid contracts? Supply and demand is one aspect of capitalism I appreciate very much. I am not a soviet communist. I love supply and demand. But unfortunately, Big Business does everthing it can to avoid those constraints. And they do not apply to Halliburton's multi-billion dollar Iraqi contract.

kach22i · kach22i's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Howard
kach22i: What can you do to help? Call America's Most Wanted (the TV show) and ask them to consider conducting an episode from Kandahar Airfield, Afghanistan. It could be titled "World's Most Wanted" and pretend to focus on finding Bin Ladin. Since we expect a large percentage of the KBR workers are probably criminals hiding from the law, I think the show could nab a large number of them and reduce the cost plus percentage of KBRs contract. This could also make KBR reconsider their hiring practices and hire quality workers that want to be here and provide services they are paid to provide in a manner that is professional and considerate of our soldiers.

Just a thought.

But a funny thought.

Moneyguy1 · 03-02-2005, 10:38 AM

My mind is made up. Do not try to confuse me with your facts and logic!!!

Superman · 03-02-2005, 11:55 AM

Mark: Thanks. Just so you know, I'm a flaming liberal, and very appreciative of your services and sacrifices. You should know that both sides of the aisle agree on this one, though one side would have you believe us libs are ungrateful. We are not. There's a hellacious political dialogue continuing here that is very important to many of us, but we don't get politics confused with duty and honor. Like I say.....

Thank you.

fintstone · fintstone's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by 350HP930
It certainly is informative to see fint's armchair warrior attidude and opinions, formed by years of pushing paper in non combat operations, contrasted by the opinions of someone who has seen the reality of this war.

It is even more informative to see a post by one who has never served a minute...minimizing the service of another who has actually served for the last 30 years..especially...and then, even worse... attempting to twist an in-theater GI's complaint (blowing off steam)about the mess hall and the sorry contractors into an antiwar statement. Just another of those who wished they had the testicular equipment to have served...and resents those who do. Go back and play with your GI Joe dolls...or ar they Barbies?

Give yourself a break and stop fantacizing about me and what I do. It is pitiful. You do not know what my job is...nor do you know what I do in the Reserve...so why must you speculate? Face it, there are Girl Scouts that have seen more action than you....I could flip burgers in the chow hall and it would be a far cry more than you ever will.

fintstone · fintstone's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Superman
This discussion is hilarious. None of you conservative guys would enjoy reading the new authorized biogrphy of John Kenneth Galbraith, nor would you enjoy the writings of Keynes, the two heavyweight champions of economics in the past century. Fact is, notwithstanding your apparent opinion that capitalism does not have some troubling systemic problems for which regulation is necessary, the rest of the world disagrees with you. From your perspective, I guess, you are smarter than 90% of the world's polulation. Tell me again about liberal elitism.

I'm not going to poke fun at the details of what I see as a pathetic defense of the current system that has appeared in this thread, but I quoted Fint above because this is the heart of the the Halliburton problem and you conservative guys have to argue against your own beloved in order to defend. Supply and demand are not in play for large corporations in general. Market forces essentially only apply to small and medium sized companies since large corporations essentially run our nation. I know you're okay with that and your defenses are, again, pathetic.

If you favor supply and demand, then how can you support no-bid contracts? Supply and demand is one aspect of capitalism I appreciate very much. I am not a soviet communist. I love supply and demand. But unfortunately, Big Business does everthing it can to avoid those constraints. And they do not apply to Halliburton's multi-billion dollar Iraqi contract.

Give me a break Supe! You are being quite misleading by pulling that out of context. Obviously I was not referring to the Haliburton contract. The supply and demand statement clearly referred to the salaries required to get foreigners to serve in Iraq. The salaries of the KBR food service workers are certainly a result of supply and demand. Obviously the contract referred to by the article is an award-fee type which pretty much makes any profit by the company contingent upon their exceeding certain set performance levels. This type contract is typically used to prevent the graft and mismanagement. If they received the award fee, Maj Howard's superiors in the Army must have determined that KBR met the performance goals set for them when the contract was written.

Moneyguy1 · 03-02-2005, 10:46 PM

Forgive me for asking..

But if private contractors are now performing some of the functions that were previously performed by military personnel and the cost is higher for the private contractors, then wouldn't it make sense to increase the number of military at the lower cost to perform these tasks?

Unless I am missing something, this is simple math.

Mark Howard · 11:07 PM

Wow. What a stir this has caused. Another bottom line for you guys: Unless you are part of the contracting process, or see the fraud, waste and abuse I see daily, you have no idea what is going on. Flint, I don't know what you do or how you serve, but I am glad you do whatever you do, liberal, conservative or whatever, we need everyone. As far as meeting performance criteria, they do not, at least not here at KAF. I have had to personally go to the IG and contracting office just to get KBR to do what their contract says. I am not blowing steam, I am stating facts as I know them. Back in the world, I have several businesses that provide services to FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) for disaster recovery planning and redevelopment. I have NEVER had a cost plus contract, not one. FEMA knows they are too hard to control costs on. I rely on the government for about 50% of my contracts, but I provide a oustanding product for the cost. If I didn't, I would not get another job from them. KBR got in the door first (using their inside track), got the ID/IQ contract, and no one can un-seat them regardless of the job they do. My "superiors" in the Army who approved this contract have never been to KAF, never ate their pathetic food, or had to rely on them to suck the S--t out of the port-a-john. Blowing off steam? No, I blew my steam months ago. Do I see a corporation that could provide better leadership and supervision for their workers for what they get paid? You bet.

I'm just curious...Flint what do you do in the reserve? Army? Air Force? I am the XO for a combat heavy engineer battalion, we blow up stuff and build stuff, hence why I mest deal with KBR construction contractors all the time.

Super: nothing wrong with being liberal, I'm sure you know that. We're here defending your right to be whatever you want to be. I appreciate your support. Now, liberal media is a whole other topic. We laugh daily (although it's not really funny) on the way stories coming out of Afghanistan get twisted by the liberal media. We get one rocket attack here, media in the states reports a major Taliban offensive. Got so bad at one point I had to tell my wife not to watch the TV anymore because she would get so upset about my safety. It's not a cake walk here, but we don't have the Taliban horde attacking our perimeter ever few hours. The liberal media has really put a negative spin on the war, and it's just not that way. Being a liberal is okay, being a lying liberal is not okay.

Just my $.02 (and the full $.02, mine is all tax free right now!)