Homes falling off the hills in Laguna Beach... - Page 3

ckissick · 06-02-2005, 01:04 PM

I'm a surveyor and geotechnical engineer/geologist, so here's the story. It doesn't matter what the dirt has done. Your property boundaries are set on a coordinate system in space. Their dirt has moved, but their property lines haven't . But so what? No one's going to be re-building anytime soon, anyway.

widebody911 · widebody911's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by ckissick
I'm a surveyor and geotechnical engineer/geologist, so here's the story. It doesn't matter what the dirt has done. Your property boundaries are set on a coordinate system in space. Their dirt has moved, but their property lines haven't . But so what? No one's going to be re-building anytime soon, anyway.

Like I said surmised in my previous post - they're just a little closer to China now...

pbs911 · pbs911's Garage

Quote:

I thought property lines went down to the center of the earth. That's why you'd own the minerals, oil, etc. under your ground under your house.

I've read hundreds of purchases / sales agreements and have yet to read a purchase agreement that granted the buyer any mineral, oil, gas, water, etc. ownership rights. At least in the residentual areas of So Cal. it is not possible. The reason being is the state, county and government entites do not want someone buying a home on Elm street only to errect an oil rig.

vash · vash's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by dd74
Yeah, I never heard about the center of Earth thing. Hmmm...interesting, though.

wait,... the earth is a sphere, so we all own a share of the absolute center of the earth? YES!

dd74 · 06-02-2005, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by widebody911
...they're just a little closer to China now...

Well, at least they're going where the work is.

Coordinates in space? Okay. But there's no earth left for the coordinates to coordinate...

ckissick · 06-02-2005, 02:15 PM

Sorry, Vash, but the earth is a geoid. Because of the rotation of the earth and variations in the density of the earth, it's fatter in the middle, a bit flat at the poles, with extra width in the southern hemisphere, something like a pear or Jon Lovitz.

ckissick · 06-02-2005, 02:17 PM

dd74; no earth left? What's that moving brown stuff? There's plenty earth left, it's just not behaving.

dd74 · 06-02-2005, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ckissick
dd74; no earth left? What's that moving brown stuff? There's plenty earth left, it's just not behaving.

Would it have behaved if no one built on it. See? I'm getting around to the legal implications of all this -- 'cause you know this is going to show up in a courtroom.

88BlueTSiQuest · 06-02-2005, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ckissick
something like a pear or Jon Lovitz.

That actually made me laugh out loud!!

dd74 · 06-02-2005, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SoCal911SC
They definately did it in the 50s. Lots of home owners in Los Angeles that live near the La Cienegas oil fields have been receiving oil royalty checks for 50+ years.

You could own the land beneath your house, and all the oil, etc. and the state or county could still prevent you from putting up an oil rig by simple zoning laws.

I think that was access related.

AFJuvat · 06-02-2005, 06:18 PM

I certainly sympathize with anyone that was injured in the landslides.

I have to wonder though, this isn't the first time this has happened. It would seem that the homes there are either sliding off the hill, or getting burned up in wildfires.

Why do they clear the hills of most of the vegetation that holds the ground together and build houses there?

Pretty stupid to build there don't you think?

Yes, I live in Florida, and there are hurricanes. Thats why I don't live on the coast - I'm about 4 miles inland.

AFJuvat

350HP930 · 06-02-2005, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ckissick
Sorry, Vash, but the earth is a geoid. .

If you want to get technical about it, the correct classification for the shape of the earth is 'oblate spheriod'.

The geoid refers to the bumpyness of the surface do to gravitation and weight differences caused by density differences and irregular mass arrangements like mountains and glaciers.

jkarolyi · 06-03-2005, 11:34 PM

People will build in this exact spot again. The even bigger slide in 1978....there are houses built in the same spot as we speak!

I just wonder who is going to pay for these multi-million dollar homes. Banks won't loan on these places without insurance. I've heard that you can buy homowner's insurance from the government for otherwise "unisurable" properties (such as beachfront or these cliffhanger homes).

In that case, or if they get "national disaster" relief, we taxpayers are paying for these rich idiots to build houses on obviously unstable land.

dd74 · 06-04-2005, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jkarolyi

In that case, or if they get "national disaster" relief, we taxpayers are paying for these rich idiots to build houses on obviously unstable land.

As opposed to the poor fools who live in trailers along Tornado Alley who eventually also receive "national disaster" relief we taxpayers pay for?

jkarolyi · 06-04-2005, 01:12 AM

Those Laguna homeowners have the option to plop their 10000 sq. ft. McMansions outside of the landslide area. The trailer owners probably have no choice but to live in Tornado alley. Tornados strike at random while landsides are pretty predicatable.

I just don't like paying for people to build these unsafe houses. People built these homes purposely in known landslide areas assuming that the government will bail them out if there's a landslide and that boils my blood.

Thanks for the Carerra CS article by the way DD, I really enjoyed it. Amazing how we all get along when it comes to Porsches.

350HP930 · 06-04-2005, 06:03 AM

I have been hearing in news reports that all those homes are uninsurable with any program due to the geological instability of the area.

Here in florida there are a lot of coastal area homes that would be completely destroyed if a major hurricane hit that are covered by government flood and wind insurance programs.

God forbid we let the private market leave any coastal areas undeveloped due to the risks involved.

SteveStromberg · 06-04-2005, 09:19 AM

Just wait they approved 38,000 home up in The delta that are 8 ft below sealevel.
A dike broke there a while back due to a ground squirlle digging a hole and flood a huge area.
Will the tax payers have to "Bail out " those home owners?

88BlueTSiQuest · 06-04-2005, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dd74
As opposed to the poor fools who live in trailers along Tornado Alley who eventually also receive "national disaster" relief we taxpayers pay for?

That is different, though. Owning a house in Tornado Alley does not guarantee you will be hit by a Tornado. I've lived in Tornado Alley for around 22 years, I've had some close calls, but never an actual hit.

Putting a house on an unstable sandy cliff, that experts have said will end up in a landslide, isn't a gamble, it's an absolute.

Something else to consider. National Disaster relief really doesn't help the people. It helps the town/city/providence. Wichita was declared a national disaster last December over a nasty ice storm we had. Over 300,000 people were without power for a week and more. Businesses were shut down, and we even had some deaths. The disaster relief fund didn't go into any of the Tax Payers hands, instead it was distributed to the city so that the city could use it to clean up tree limbs, and pay overtime for all the workers re-establishing power to the city and communities.

As far as I'm concerned... The city should of had the means of taking care of this themselves. It wasn't the city, or any of the city buildings that were damaged in the storm, it was the Taxpayers that took all the damage.

88BlueTSiQuest · 06-04-2005, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SteveStromberg
Just wait they approved 38,000 home up in The delta that are 8 ft below sealevel.
A dike broke there a while back due to a ground squirlle digging a hole and flood a huge area.
Will the tax payers have to "Bail out " those home owners?

Living in a flood plain, we are forced to Pay FEMA for our own flood insurance. The particular area I live in hasn't ever been flooded, according to records dating back to 1983, my house was built in 1979. So at a rate of $700 per year, and considering the 50 or so houses in this area that have never experienced a flood, I think we have them covered.

Also, FEMA doesn't set a standard rate for flood insurance. They survey the area and assess rates by the likelyhood that there may actually be a flood, and base that on the value of the homes.

dd74 · 06-04-2005, 11:47 AM

jkarolyi - re. CS article. My pleasure! I'm sorry it took so long to get it to you guys.

One thing can be relied upon with the Laguna Beach slide that no one would consider with trailer homes - that's the cost of these million-dollar houses. Money talks in housing, in other words.

All this will set a legal precedent for whenever someone wants to build in the hills - lots of geological checks, for example. New building codes, etc. Is it a good thing? I suppose.

I believe no one should build in the hills or on the beach, and partly because of their own safety could be compromised in an earthquake, slide, tsunami, etc.