Hey LubeMaster....

lendaddy · 06-16-2005, 10:05 AM

I know you do oils and greases, but do you get involved in solvents, cutting oils, water soluble and/or vegetable oil based coolants?

M.D. Holloway · 06-16-2005, 08:26 PM

Yes, on a lesser degree - are you looking into metal working fluids and parts washer solvents?

As for metal working fluids, let me know the type of work, the metal alloy and process to start out with and I might be able to point you in the right direction. I have twop guys that are industry experst and have help develop some of the next generation stuff.

As for solvents, we have just introduced a new parts washing solvent that is non-flammible, non-carcinogenic, can be dispoed of in your oil waste stream and actually works as well as varsol and that poison that Safety Kleen sells and then hits you with al sorts of hidden charges.

lendaddy · 06-17-2005, 03:41 AM

OK,

Here's what I use.

Stabalized nPB, they also refer to it as "Lenium ES" and we have also used something called "Leksol sg" I buy it by the drum and it is used in our vapor degreasing and ultrasonic cleaners. It's fairly expensive stuff so an alternative would be great.

I also use a product call "Recool Gold" made by PPG. It's a water soluble cutting fluid for use in cold saws and other steel cutting machinery. I also purchase it by the drum.

And I use a vegetable oil based lube that is used for cutting non-ferrous metals (alum/brass/etc). I am pretty sure it's 4% gold and 2% platinum if you know what I mean

It goes in misting equipment to cool carbide blades/threading equip/mills/etc.. The big company there is Unist, inc.

If there is anything similar that you offer to the above I'de be more than happy to give it a try. I can get you more info on it if required.

Thanks!

M.D. Holloway · 06-17-2005, 11:08 AM

Len - sorry I didn't get back to you, I was tangled in other threads and work.

I think I have a product for you. It is a high lubricity synthetic that is biodegradable. The lubricity will prevent chip welding and keep the tool-workpiece interface temperature down. The higher than normal water content will facilitate better heat transfer and not get sticky on the workpiece or tool. This will keep down the accumulation of chips on the tool and not damage the finish on the workpiece. How much do you need to get you started? I can quoted you a price via e-mail.

As far as the solvent goes, there are several directions we can go down. I need a bit more information on the finished goods and if their are any other concerns including VOC's, flammibility and residue.

M.D. Holloway · 06-17-2005, 11:17 AM

Also - in order to get a better understanding of your place, lets try to nail down the following:

What kinds of machines are being used? mills, lathes, saws, and grinders?

What metals are being worked? Brass? Bronze? Stainless steel? Titanium? Nickel alloys? The list is nearly endless but groups of metals have common characteristics. Should the answer be that a variety of metals are being worked, get a list and determine which metal is the most worked? FYI, there are over 60 carbon steel varieties, 50 aluminum alloys, 90 tool steels, 25 stainless steels, and 60 nickel alloys for starters.

What type of shop is this? Job shop? Prototype? Mass production? Specialty operation? Single operation?

What is being used now?

What types of problems are you having now and what they are trying to achieve?

Sorry for so many questions, but in order to provide you with the best ideas, I need to get a bit detailed. Thanks.

M.D. Holloway · 06-17-2005, 11:35 AM

That nPB I would assume you are looking for a n-propylbromide - we have one. They are really great solvents - no residue, non-flammable, non-carcinogenic, evaporates almost immediately, great solventcy. Only a few places actually make the stuff, the rest of us buy it and repackage it. We have our own aerosol filling lines so we can go less expensive than most others.

lendaddy · 06-17-2005, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LubeMaster77
Also - in order to get a better understanding of your place, lets try to nail down the following:

What kinds of machines are being used? mills, lathes, saws, and grinders?

Cold saws, CNC mills, Carbide bladed chop saws (for aluminum).

What metals are being worked? Brass? Bronze? Stainless steel? Titanium? Nickel alloys? The list is nearly endless but groups of metals have common characteristics. Should the answer be that a variety of metals are being worked, get a list and determine which metal is the most worked? FYI, there are over 60 carbon steel varieties, 50 aluminum alloys, 90 tool steels, 25 stainless steels, and 60 nickel alloys for starters.

The cold saws cut 50% 400 series stainless & 50% 300 series stainless. It is all tubing 1/2"Ø to 4"Ø, .028" to .125" wall.

The aluminum is all extrusions, generally 6061 T-6, standard stuff. The other non-ferrous have always worked well with our Al cutting equip.

What type of shop is this? Job shop? Prototype? Mass production? Specialty operation? Single operation?

Mass production, we run thousands of cuts day, millions and millions a year

What is being used now?

For the steel work we use the "PPG recool gold", they renamed it a while back, but it's a water soluble cutting fluid. We mix it with water at 40 or 50:1. We have used other stuff in the past that had chlorine for high pressure anti friction, but my customers complain about the residue

The non-ferrous we use the Unist vegetable oil based stuff. You can find that at Unist.com

For cleaning , you are correct it is the n-propylbromide, which is (as I understand it) as safer alternative to Tri-chlor We use ultrasonic vapor-degreasing machines that house it in fluid state. There are cooling coils about a foot above the fluid and the space between is a 160° vapor of the solvent. It works really well.

What types of problems are you having now and what they are trying to achieve?

We are always looking for a better cutting fluid to extend blade life. We are fairly happy with the PPG, but it never hurts to ask around for better quality and/or price

The non-ferrous coolant is the same story, but more so on the price side

The n-propylbromide is all about price, it works great, but it's killing me $ wise. I pay over a grand a barrel and it lasts three weeks to a month.

Sorry for so many questions, but in order to provide you with the best ideas, I need to get a bit detailed. Thanks.

No problem, I appreciate your time. I know how busy one can get in the sales racket. If all you can offer is advise, that's cool too. I truly do appreciate it.

lendaddy · 06-17-2005, 12:36 PM

I forgot to add, the cleaning removes buffing compound from polished stainless parts and/or process lubes from drawn/spun formed brass and aluminum. Thanks again.

M.D. Holloway · 06-17-2005, 01:00 PM

Sales? I wish I was in sales - I could make a furtune. I'm the guy that tries to figuer out how to make our company more money.

lendaddy · 06-17-2005, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LubeMaster77
Sales? I wish I was in sales - I could make a furtune. I'm the guy that tries to figuer out how to make our company more money.

Sorry, my memory is really sucking lately! What I was really trying to say is not to worry about taking your time. I'm in no rush right now. The only thing that really is hurting me now is the solvent (I may need a few hundred gallons soon to prime a new machine). I appreciate your time and don't want to take advantage, I think you know what I mean.

I know how fast the day moves for me and doing people favors almost always takes more time than you estimated

M.D. Holloway · 06-17-2005, 01:29 PM

The solvent you guys are using is pricey - I think we can be competitive. Question - you want to use a solvent that doesn't leave a residue - I think I might have a dilutable water based butyl solvent (attacks glass though) that works really well. It doesn't leave a residue and even a lesser degree if you can do an acetone bath.

Don't worry about the time I spend - I can do more in one hour than most others in this business can do in a day. Now worries...

lendaddy · 06-18-2005, 02:51 AM

Thanks,

One generic question. These solvents are obviously liquid, they all come in 1/5/or 55 gallon denominations. So why.......do they price it by the friggen pound????? Is it a marketing thing, so you don't get freaked out knowing that you're paying $23 bucks a gallon and $1.75 a pound sounds more palatable? Or maybe the components are purchased by the pound so the markup is easier that way?

M.D. Holloway · 06-18-2005, 09:32 PM

Yep - its all a freaking game. The only oil purchased in lbs now is gear oil. There is all sorts of speculation as to why it started out that way, but I think it is all a marketing thing. It takes the sting out of it.

We do some real custom stuff for "lube-for-life" applications where you only use maybe a tenth of an once in thousands and thousands of parts, but because it costs tens of thouasands to develop and a few million easy to just test. You have to consider that into the cost of the product. Well, these appliccations do not call for much lubricant at all - we are talking the special grease you may find in the very expensive fishing reels or rearview mirror motors/gears or opitcal coupling. The price per pound is in the thousands (mostly due to development costs and not the materials) - so you charge per application. Makes it more gentler to swallow...