The 10 g is an E grade 1889 damascus, 16 is G grade 1906 damascus and the 20 is G grade 1916 krupp steel. All made by LeFever Arms Co. , not D.M. LeFever ( I wish)

Many concealed carry guns end up being left at home because of size. Even a hi-power gets heavy & bulky. Since ANY gun is better than NO gun, if I ever decide to go concealed carry, I'll probably end up with a Smith featherwight in .38 special, with Crimson trace sights....small enough to be concealed under a T shirt, light enough to be no problem carrying. My hesitation on getting the concealed carry permit? If handguns are banned, permit holders will be at the head of the list.

I couldn't imagine concealing anything larger than a .380. I can stick a Kel-Tec P-3AT in my front pant pocket (jeans, khakis, slacks, etc with shirt tucked in) and no one knows what it is. 6+1 rounds, 7.2 oz (unloaded), 5.2"x3.5"x.77". Me likes :).

My .02
- Skip

And getting caught without one AND the pistol will move you to the head of the "Go to Jail" list, if not shot by a jumpy LEO. Man just get the permit. Here in Florida they give them out as premiums when you buy 6 sandwichs from Subway!

I have a couple of laser pistols and a death ray on my scooter. Does my Ghostbusters' backpack weapon count? I know not to cross the beams.

I have Glocks in both .40S&W and .45ACP. If six rnd. is not an issue I would definitly get the 36. .45ACP has allways been my favorite caliber. And I have been hearing about Glock .40s blowing themself up for years. It's never happened to me but I've seen ones that have. I think the problem is mainly with really hot loads.

I am looking for a nice Colt Model 1908 in 380...doesn't need to be 100% as I am looking for a shooter....

I also want a Ed Brown Custom Classic in Stainless, and a Nesika Heavy Tactical in 308.....end of story

After years of being around guns I am reminded of what a old time gun dealer from New England once told me....He said, "That when he was a kid he used to collect Broomhandles and Lugers, but now he was more interested in finding a Hawken Rifle than any of those guns." After awhile the new and not so new stuff just becomes run of the mill... give me something unique...Like an English Percussion Target Rifle that was used in the 1000 yard target matches at Creedmore... or a set of Dueling Pistols by Manton or Egg...Now U have got something...does that mean that I'm going to give up my 5 Screw Pre model 27 S&W wt a 3 1/2 inch barrel...Nope....but that Glock might go....

Actually, this is what I'm talking about. I am looking for something unobtrusive that I _will_ carry. I would even consider .32, but I was looking for something that would have decent stopping power. How is .380 for this?

I just read 3 articles on this gun and this looks like the ticket.

James

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jyl
[B]I'm interested in this too. There seem to be some new calibers lately. For example I see there is now a "GAP" caliber specific to Glocks. What's all that about?

Personaly I don't understand the need for the .45GAP. The Ballistics are about identical to the .45ACP. The only advantage I see is with the shorter cartridge it allows for a smaller grip size. Springfield Armory is really trying to push the .45GAP. Maybe even more than Glock. As far as stopping power 230gr. of .45ACP hardball is perfect.

Would you recommend hardball, or hollowpoint, or those fancy "safety slugs"? Assume a home defense situation with innocents in the house.

Glaser safety slugs for sure for home defense.

The glaser safety slugs or a shotgun loaded with heavy birdshot (BB or #2)

Only disadvantage to the safety slugs is that you should really put a lot of rounds thru a semi-auto to make sure it will feed/function with them correctly... which can get really expensive. No issue with a revolver that way...

Glaser myths

http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/glaser_ss.html

Not really a successful bullet unless you get a good shot to a vital area from very close proximity. Similar results are found with birdshot.

Why do you guys carry guns? I am a gun owner, and an ardent supporter of gun rights. But I can't think of a single situation in my entire life when I would have wanted a gun, and this includes 3 years living in downtown Detroit. It just seems like it has the potential to make things go from bad to worse quickly. Brandishing a gun seems like an unnessecary escalation.

Set me straight on this is you feel otherwise.

btw, I do support carry permits.

Why? Because I can. I agree that "brandishing" is not a good idea, and I, like you have never been in a situation where I could have used it. And I grew up in Cleveland. But then there is the one time that it does happen and you don't have it. Then what?

Be thankfull you have never had a situation where you needed a gun. If you had been placed in that situation, you would probably not be here to ask why carrying a gun necessary.

It all comes down to placing yourself in the position of being a victim. Do you you really think a armed citizen on the 9/11 flight would have escalated a bad situation into a worse one? Do you really believe that if the person walking down the street who was shot dead for their wallet would have turned a bad situation into a worse one? Do you really believe that a bad guy pointing a gun at your face will cause you no harm if you abide by their demands? Do you really believe that there are no people who would cause you great bodily injury? Do you really believe the police will protect you?

The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that the police have no duty to protect you from the bad guys.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1121788617.jpg
Do as they ask and the bad guys may not harm you.

I am only asking because I have considered getting a carry permit for camping. I don't like the idea of being out in the middle of no where with my family without some kind of protection.

"Do you really believe that if the person walking down the street who was shot dead for their wallet would have turned a bad situation into a worse one? Do you really believe that a bad guy pointing a gun at your face will cause you no harm if you abide by their demands? Do you really believe that there are no people who would cause you great bodily injury? "

Well, like I said, I have never had anything like that happen. I have been in fights, and I have seen some rough stuff go down. Not once has a person pulled a gun on me. More to the point, if you have a gun in your face, going for your gun is going to get you killed. Where do you draw the line? I'm 6'2" and I can handle myself just fine. If some guy gets in my face, do I go for the gun? It just seems like a slippery slope. What could have been a minor toussle with some drunk ends up being a homicide.

The terrorism issue? Frankly I think you being a little over the top. I think every American wants to do what they can to prevent terrorism. And the subway bombing to seem to raise the specter of a more gritty ground level terrorist threat. But the chances of an individual being able to do something seem so remote.....

HardDrive,
If you don't want to own a gun, don't.
If you don't want to carry, don't.
This ground has been covered so many times already on this forum.
In your opening post you come across as a pro-gun person, now you are replying as an indecisive fence straddler.
Following is my reply to the why own a gun querry raised, I copied it from some of my earlier posts on the matter.

Why own a gun?
Because they are fun.
Because I have a moral right to defend myself and my property. They even the playing field between a small woman and a big brute running off his head on drugs or drink.
Because it does not give me an illusion of safety, it gives me a measure of safety. If I cannot own and carry a handgun legally, then it is bad law and I shall not respect it.
We've been around this topic on a lot of internet forums many times, neither side has ever convinced the other, those with no experience of realities continue to preach their mantras about the police protecting us and I don't understand why you need a gun and I live in a slum ghetto and I don't need a gun to protect myself in my home and I feel perfectly safe walking in my street.
Well, I, my husband and my daughter have been issued carry permits because there is a demonstrable need and the authorities accept they are not able to offer adequate protection in my home or in the street. They are not issued as easily in Italy as in the US.
I do not think I am unsafe in my home or in the street. I know it for a fact.
If you don't want to own a handgun, don't. Do not question my right to own one or to use it.

Some observations
Homicide and shooting statistics: How many relate to criminal deaths or woundings ie they were either the aggressor or not an innocent participant?
How many times has the fact that someone was armed and produced their handgun defused a situation without a shooting, eg an aggressor deciding to run off? (No stats on that one)
The perception of a threat is very subjective as is different people's awareness levels. My awareness level is high - not naturally, but by training.
Have I ever been involved in a defensive/gun situation? The answer is yes, both serious and defused, the details are my business and still stressful after many years. It also has a lot to do with what many see as an extreme position on the subject for a middleaged woman.

I saw this a little while ago: Any thoughts?
Florida Governor Signs Deadly Force Law

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (Reuters) - Florida Gov. Jeb Bush signed a new anti-crime law on Tuesday that allows people to kill in self-defense without first trying to flee.

Supporters say the law is a logical extension of common law that allows homeowners who fear for their lives to use deadly force to defend themselves from an intruder in their homes.

The new law expands that doctrine to include people in public places who feel threatened and could be subject to death or great bodily harm.

"To suggest that you can't defend yourself against a rapist, who's trying to drag you into an alley, or against a carjacker who's trying to drag you out of your car is nonsense," said Marion Hammer, a former president of the National Rifle Association.

"The ability to protect yourself, your children or your spouse, is important, no matter where you are."

Critics of the new law, called the "Stand Your Ground" bill, have few objections to allowing people to protect themselves in their homes but say the bill will create a "Wild West" mentality in public, where residents may shoot first and ask questions later.

"There are going to be a lot of repercussions," said Rep. Eleanor Sobel, a Democrat. "You could have someone reaching into their pocket and if the person felt threatened he could shoot."

Like many states, Florida courts have ruled that homeowners have a right to defend themselves in their homes. Florida courts have expanded the doctrine to include employees in their workplace and drivers who are attacked in their automobiles.

Outside the home, however, courts have ruled that most victims must at least attempt to escape before using deadly force, a provision gun advocates say puts victims at greater risk. The new law removes that requirement if a person has a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm.

"All this bill will do is sell more guns and possibly turn Florida into the OK Corral," Rep. Irv Slosberg, a Democrat, said during recent debate on the bill.

I think running away may often be the sensible option. I don't think I should be legally obliged to, especially in my home.
My car is an extension of my home. However, I don't usually leave my pistol in my car as I am too afraid of having my car broken into or stolen, without of course mentioning carparks where you have to leave your keys and the monkey parks baby. Otherwise I would keep something fullsize readilly accessable and out of sight in my car. Responsible gunowners with permits are typically the most peaceful, quiet and responsible people one can meet, we're usually the ones that walk away from troublesome situations.
Parents with guns have a responsibility to teach proper handling and safety to their children. My daughter grew up around firearms and it was never any big deal. Today she also has a permit, I don't think most of her friends know about it - discretion is also something you have to practice and teach your children.

You GO Isabo! Of course I know your position on fireams. As far as the new Floriduh law goes. Well I have not seen any shootouts in the street as yet. ;-) Most news reporters are making a big deal out of this and really don't have the facts right...no surpise there. To listen to them, this is an invitation to blood in the streets and all us Floridians are packin and scratching to use em. In one sense fine, let them think that. All the scumbags should know we are armed and ready for em. Maybe a good deterrent. The other side is the news media took this over the top. It just sets straight what was wrong with the Castle Doctrine to begin with. Why should you have to reteat in your own home. Hell why should you have to retreat at all to begin with.