Difference between liberal, libertarian and conservative?

[FrayAdjacent911]

Someone posted this on another forum I frequent, and I thought it touched on some fundamental basics. What do you guys think?

(someone else wrote what follows... I'm going to cut out a few non related comments, as this was in the course of a discussion)


...You see, the liberal beelives man is basically good - its just his environment is bad, and so he does bad stuff. "Fix the environment, and you curb mans poor behaviour" the liberal says.

...libertarians aren't that much different in this root cause ideology. (LIbertarians are very different from Liberals as Liberals wish to control man thru gov't as an end unto itself. Here however I'm addressing the simialrity in teh root cause of man's poor behaviour) [libertarians] think gov't CAUSES " most of these problems you see with the "real world" " (I was referring to fraud, theft, and wanton violation of speed limits)

Once again the libertarian , like the liberal sees environemntal and external causes for mans poor behaviour. "Limit the gov't and you fix man's poor behaviour" says the libertarian.

In stark contrast to libertarians and liberals, true conservatives understand the root cause of mans problem is internal to himself. The conservative says "You fix man's poor behaviour by fixing the man." The conservative understands that it is internal corruption within man that CAUSES him even to abuse the rightful and necessary powers of gov't . Abusive gov't is caused not by gov't, but by corrupt man. The conservative understands that man, unless he is reigned in, will abuse and violate his fellow man. Wherever possible the true conservative chooses freedom. But sometimes theres no way license (the abuse of freedom and liberty) can be allowed. There MUST be law.

Different men require different levels of reigning in. Some men require near none. The pollyannish libertarian thinks you can base societies rules on THIS type of man. That's rank foolishness. The fact is, laws MUST be based roughly on the mean average of man's proclivity to abuse and violate his fellow man.

THIS is why Penn said "Men will either be (self) governed by God, or the WILL be ruled by tyrants." Self-government under the authority of God RAISES the mean average of the proclivity to abuse and violate fellow man, and the strictness of societal laws can be eased.

But these days, man is throwing off God's authority and the mean average is dropping. For a society to survive, tyrants MUST step in. Often these "tyrants" are unwilling tyrants, stepping in only with sorrow and reluctance. (These "tyrants" are known as "conservatives." ) They do so ONLY because they understand man REFUSES to control himself, and therefore gov't must, in order to save society from devouring itself.

This is the real world that mostly only conservatives live in. If you wish to join us, you know where we can be found.

[Steeve]

Liberal vs. Conservative is very simple:

Conservatives favor Order over Freedom
Conservatives favor Freedom over Equality

Liberals favor Freedom over Order
Liberals favor Equality over Freedom

Libertarians won't exist in 25 years. They'll be replaced with another 3rd party soon enough. Such is the way of our system, like it or not.

[fintstone]

Difference:
liberal...add a backbone and 20 points to IQ and get a conservative...add 20 more points to IQ...and get a libertarian

[Mule]

Flintstone, you get the gold star. Best description I've ever seen.

[livi]

Well, the environment will be responsible for the selection of the fittest individuals, who in their turn will take advantage of that environment as best as their little egocentric self can muster..

According to good ol´Darwin, at least..

Whether that would make us liberals or conservatives, I havn´t the foggiest.

[Dan Mc Intyre]

Originally posted by fintstone
Difference:
liberal...add a backbone and 20 points to IQ and get a conservative...add 20 more points to IQ...and get a libertarian

What an enlightened thought.

Dan

[Superman]

Over the course of my lifetime I have wished thousands of times, only very briefly each time, that the world seemed as simple to me as it apparently does to folks like Fint and Mule. Then the wish goes immediately away when I realize the real consequence of a viewpoint that exceedingly simple.

I accept the "liberal" tag because to me it means freedom. It means I would not be interested in controlling peoples' behavior. The word itself means that. Liberal. Tolerant. Accepting. Open-minded. Accepting and embracing a WIDE range of lifestyles, religions and other personal choices. I do believe commercial activity needs to be regulated. Not people. Businesses.

Conservatives, according to my view, see it differently. They have this notion that deregulating business would be a smart idea. And regulating people is a good idea.

And then there are the libertarians, who appear to be wishing for a lawless free-for-all.

Originally posted by Superman
And then there are the libertarians, who appear to be wishing for a lawless free-for-all.

Ah....Good times....

[legion]

Originally posted by Superman
And then there are the libertarians, who appear to be wishing for a lawless free-for-all.

That's only because they want the freedom to beat the crap out of the liberals...and win.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Coservative politician: Give me most of your money, I'll pay off my corporate benefactors with it

Liberal politican: Give me all of your money, I'll pay off my corporate benefactors with it and subsidize national indolence.

Libertarian politician: Let's smoke pot!

Libertarian: Leave me the f*ck alone and do the job I paid you to do!

[FrayAdjacent911]

I find that there are really conflicting ideas about 'liberal' and 'conservative'...

I generally took them literally as they relate to politics. If someone was politically liberal, they favored big government, beaurocracy and regulation, and someone who was politically conservative favored less government and regulation.

I am learning that the above is a bit over simplistic, as lots of factors really play into people's beliefs. According to how some of you guys put it, I'm liberal in ways and conservative in others.

However, I think I do agree with my first post, inasmuch as sometimes it seems that liberals think people are inherently good, and if you just don't offend them, they'll behave (see political correctness), and that other outside factors are greatly or even totally to blame for some people's poor behavior.

Being pretty conservative, I do have enough of an open mind to also understand that my previous statement is not a hard and fast dogma of liberalism.

I really believe that people's beliefs and values are too granular to really honestly lump as 'liberal' or 'conservative'. I think we all just lean one way or another, to varying degrees.

[CamB]

Those who know me, know I'm a fan of the "Political Compass", which is a fun little test working on the premise there are two axes to the political spectrum - left/right (essentially an economic and welfare axis) and liberal/conservative (a more personal/societal axis).

Check out www.politicalcompass.org or a similar discussion on wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum (which shows that the political compass is actually based on a proper theory, not some BS).

[scottmandue]

Liberal vs. Conservative is very simple:

Conservatives = Whoever yells the loudest and hurls the most insults wins.

Liberals = Use intelligence to come to the best resolve.

[Boogalou]

A few thoughts.....

"The difference between a liberal and a conservative is that a conservative knows that evil exists."

Libertarian thought - "The flip side of freedom is responsibility."

If people are irresponsible then law must prevail.

I find most liberal thought today to be at odds with itself, and the same to a lesser degree with conservative thought. For example, most liberals seem to have no problem with a sexual "free market", but want to put governmental controls on the economic free market. I also find political correctness to verge on intellectual fascism, and have a hard time justifying the liberal's love of the 1st admendment, while telling people how they should think or speak. In many ways, their are no true liberals or conservatives today.

[FrayAdjacent911]

Originally posted by scottmandue
Liberal vs. Conservative is very simple:

Conservatives = Whoever yells the loudest and hurls the most insults wins.

Liberals = Use intelligence to come to the best resolve.

I've seen the opposite of that in many cases. I'm sure it happens both ways.

[Taz's Master]

Fortunately our continent was blessed in the mid-18th century with liberals violent and determined enough to wrest control from the conservative tyrants who felt the need to exert control (all for their subjects'own good mind you) over the citizens here.

[coloradoporsche]

Great quiz (test), CamB!

I tried it and found the "answer" to be accurate. Here is another one that, for me, give the same result with less questions:

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

[Superman]

Originally posted by Taz's Master
Fortunately our continent was blessed in the mid-18th century with liberals violent and determined enough to wrest control from the conservative tyrants who felt the need to exert control (all for their subjects'own good mind you) over the citizens here.

Precisely.

And I see no indication that Boogaloo's examples are at odds. Liberals believe in a sexual "free market." And they also believe that business should be regulated. I see no contradiction there because I see no connection, unless by sexual free market you are meaning the prostitution trade.

And I hope nobody is still fooled into thinking that libs are for big gubmint and cons are for small gubmint. If anybody still thinks that, please just review the factual record over the last several presidential administrations. You will find that during Democratic administrations, budgets are brought under control, but during Republican administrations budgets spin OUT of control and the federal goverment gets bigger. Our current "president" is the all time heavyweight champion of spending and enlarging government.

Folks, it's all about money. Neither party is sinless. "Freedom" has a new twisted meaning now, due to the conservatives' brilliant marketing tactics over the past few years. "Freedom" now means freedom to make as much money as possible. It means freedom from regulations on commerce. It does NOT mean freedom from regulations on individuals. The same folks who want economic freedom, also want religious and ethical and behavioral control over citizens. Precisely what I am prepared to fight against. As a liberal. Because I remember what "freedom" really means.

[Boogalou]

For the most part I agree with you Superman. the sad fact is that today the majority of Americans think "Freedom" is the ability to buy stuff they don't need and sleep with people they don't care about, while letting the Government take care of their "responsibilities". Most people today don't want true freedom, it scares the hell out of them.

Myself, I'm a true believer in Constitutional Law and the entire Bill of Rights, and believe those rights are ours by birth, and not granted by government.

I know, I know, sounds a little extremist doesn't it......

[Superman]

We agree, Boogaloo. Those personal liberties and freedoms are what makes this nation great, and they must be protected wtih full vigor from all enemies. Even our enemies in Washington DC.