Thanks, IROC. I thought you were going to clobber me.

Good post, Markus. I can't help you much, as the journey you are on is a solitary one. Two relefvant writings have held significant meaning for me. One is a paper written by William James, the son of the famous writer Henry James. William is thought to have fathered modern psychology at least as much as Freud. More, really. The paper is called "The Will To Believe." The other is a book by the (in my humble view) towering genius C.S. Lewis called "Mere Christianity." Powerful writings, in my view.

As to the evolution v. creation debate, I have no quarrel with either side until they begin to exclude the other position. Christians sometimes seem to ignore or discount the brute fact that "natural selection" is a mechanism that seems clearly to operate in nature. By the same token, evolutionists seem unduly proud, intellectually (I mentioned the sin of Pride a moment ago). They seem to stretch the natural selection observation fairly thin when they conclude that man evolved from apes. In doing so they go beyond the scientific evidence.

I do not know how or when God's hand fashioned the human aminal. But I think it did. It could have done so just like the story in Genesis. I do not know whether that story is true or not. Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe He redirected natural selection. Maybe he simply granted immutable souls to these creatures at a particular point in their development and formation. I simply know that God loves us, and offers us life without end. And I think that natural selection is a mechanism that occurs in nature. I am more certain about the former than the latter.

Evolution does not say that man evolved from apes. It is a common misconception, however. Evolution says that man and apes have a common ancestor. Big difference.

Suffice to say that your answer did not push me further away from the thought of God.

Thanks. :)

Laughable from a socialist, a man who calls himself a Christian but votes to end the life of the unborn and advocates a political ideology dead set on pushing Christ to the edge, if not off, the American cliff...Laughable from a Christian whose loyalties are more to Rome than Christ.

Jesus is the rock, the cornerstone of the Church...Not a man.

Mathew 16

And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.

Jesus Predicts His Death

From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.

Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. "Never, Lord!" he said. "This shall never happen to you!"

Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."

I do not speak for the scriptures, they speak for themselves...No man is mediator other than Christ.

Mark 7:6-9

"He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition."

Thou shalt not worship graven images, let alone chant to them.

Go, be well, have your xtian fun - all we're asking is for you STFU about it, see? We don't want your theocracy.

Your own quote, in a way, validates the office of the papacy.

Quote:

Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. "Never, Lord!" he said. "This shall never happen to you!" Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."[/i] I do not speak for the scriptures, they speak for themselves...No man is mediator other than Christ.

Methinks Satan was speaking through Peter. Christ exorcised people. Satan can speak through people, thankfully it doesn't happen much today.

All this shows how the Bible can be highly subjective at times. You can twist it one way, I can twist it another. If everyone can derive their own meaning, how can it be literal and truthful in its entirety?

Yes, Christ was certainly a Republican and entrance to Heaven is premised upon being a consistent party-line voter. . .

There sure are some scary people out there.

LOL. I think this topic is hilarious. Because Jesus was clearly, without a doubt, a dues-paying, card-carrying, dyed-in-the-wool socialist liberal. The selfish but revered grab for cash and power in America, particularly by politicians, would have him overturning the money changers' tables again if He were here.

My position (for those whose minds are sufficiently open to notice this) is that religious beliefs and choices between sin and good behavior are INDIVIDUAL decisions, and thwarting or taking away those individual decisions through governmental law is not only useless and actually counter-productive, but I honestly believe they run counter to Christ's agenda. I think those choices have to be "live" choices in order for individuals. I think the PRESENCE of the abortion choice gives people an opportunity to choose GOOD as well as an opportunity to choose EVIL. Trying to legislate morality just attempts to remove the choice. I'm not supportive of that.

Yet you want to shove your aberrant lifestyles down the country's throat and force compliance with confiscatory taxation at gunpoint...It is liberalism/socialism (proven evil) that is shoving its beliefs down the Nation's throat...You would have called for witch trials of the Founding Fathers if you heard their rhetoric.

He certainly did not attack Christianity, and advocate abortion and homosexuality.

Would you not agree?

Ah crap, I actually can't help myself but get involved again... I really tried.

Mul - you consistently accuse people around the world of being anti-semite, while you personally appear to be clearly anti-Catholic.

My take on Jesus is that he came to the Jewish people to show them the new paradigm. They have never quite latched onto it, but that's ok with me. They're still the people of God.

Catholics - and I take this from what you've said - subscribe
(in your opinion) to most but not all of a literal interpretation of the New Testament (I obviously argue we subscribe to it fully), and it is these perceived departures from the Scripture which cause you to attack us. By comparison, the Jews subscribe to none of the NT and don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah.

So why do you defend Jews but attack Catholics? Why not defend Catholics too?

Using that argument, we should legalize murder. Meaning, you should not face legal consequences if you murdered me (I'm not talking about abortion).

Also, you misunderstood that I was agreeing with IROC several posts back.

- Skip

and no way would Jesus vote socialist. :rolleyes:

Well, Jesus wanted to help the poor, unconditionally. Sent to bring them the good news, I recall. Does that sound like the current Republican platform?

Its also a bit hard to argue he is a capitalist.

This is stupid - He wouldn't vote either.

The problem is while Jesus wanted to help the poor, He did not show us that government should help the poor.

I certainly don't think He was for the government forcing people to help other people. Or, redistributing their wealth. Or, having the government wipe any reference to Him away, etc...

Now that I think about it, I don't think He would vote either.

- Skip

You care to back that up with scripture?...Show me one statement by Christ that advocates forced acts of benevolence?...Let alone the promotion of abortion or homosexuality, or pornography or drug use.

A "socialist liberal" is by philosophical definition Godless, or in such embarassment of God that he/she sees fit to legislate God from public discourse or office.

To say Christ was a "socialist liberal" is right out of the pit of hell.

If you cloned DNA found on the Shroud of Turin and incubated the fetus in an artificial womb so as not to subject it to Original Sin, would the resulting child be God?

Jesus was no friend to Rome, and Rome was no friend to Jesus...Just like a large majority of liberals, big-government types (Rome) sought to demonize and silence Christians (Christ).

Nothing Christian about liberalism...Liberalism is simply the modern day advocacy of the Roman Pagan Empire.